Discussion:
Double identity of a magical author/producer
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Gnome d Plume
2004-06-23 03:01:42 UTC
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**** Until recently it has been assumed, here on alt.magick, that Tom
Schuler is a very well educated, erudite, scientifically inclined
champion of the rational and logical perspective opposing the
supernatural claims of unscrupulous occult charlatans who would use
the internet to snare and exploit the credulous. But in the last few
weeks this socially responsible image has come into question. It has
been revealed and confirmed that Schuler was a leader in a nation-wide
scam-Druid cult founded on "a joke." He then made certain other
confessions that have seriously undermined his conservative position.
His latest attempt at dis-information is the allegation that a noted
author of occult books and producer of occult/magical video
documentaries is ashamed of his given name and avoids using it in
public whenever possible.
Just to record "straight" ;-) let's see if the great Dr. Schuler's
claim has any veracity:

(1.) The Book of Solomon's Magick (1996) by Carroll "Poke" Runyon,
M.A. presently in it's 9th printing.

(2.) The Magick of Solomon (1996) VHS video written and produced by
Carroll "Poke" Runyon, M.A.,-- released in 2004 in an expanded DVD 2nd
Edition.

(3.) Secrets of the Golden Dawn Cypher Manuscript (1997) by Carroll
"Poke" Runyon, M.A. , 3rd printing 2002.

(4.) Seasonal Rites of Baal and Astarte (1998) by Carroll "Poke"
Runyon, M.A., 2nd printing 2004.

(5.) The Seventh Ray, Book I, The Blue Ray, (1999) edited by Carroll
"Poke" Runyon, M.A.

(6.) The Seventh Ray, Book II, The Red Ray, (2000) edited by Carroll
"Poke" Runyon, M.A.

(7.) Dark Mirror of Magick (2001) VHS video, produced by Carroll
"Poke" Punyon --released in 2004 in an expanded DVD 2nd Edition.

These titles are available from Amazon and Barnes & Noble, making
this list is easy to confirm---so just what is it that our
"Archdruid-turned-skeptic" with the murky occult background, is
trying to establish? Is he suggesting that there are two Carroll
"Poke" Runyons? One would think that if this were true, the "Poke
Runyon" that wrote novels for Pyramid and Jove, and stories for Argosy
Magazine would object to having his distinctive first name (included
in quotation marks) between Carroll and Runyon----maybe Schuler thinks
the legendary Poke Runyon is dead and doesn't mind having his name
stolen?
But if that's true, how come we find these novels listed currently:

(1.) Drell Master (2001) by Poke Runyon

(2.) From the Tower of Darkness (2002) by Poke Runyon

(both available from Amazon) So why isn't Poke suing Carroll?
It appears that they are both the same person (and not ashamed of it )
and it is our strangely conflicted Archdruid who has descended into an
irrational state wherein he believes that one Runyon is at war with
the other. It would be more logical to assume that the counter-culture
phoney druid is at war with the debunking pseudo scientist.
But thanks for the plug, Tommy Boy. Ultimately you always manage
to boost our sales. ****

Gnome d Plume
(the One, the Only, and the Original!)
Tom
2004-06-23 05:41:13 UTC
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Post by Gnome d Plume
**** Until recently it has been assumed, here on alt.magick, that Tom
Schuler is a very well educated, erudite, scientifically inclined
champion of the rational and logical perspective opposing the
supernatural claims of unscrupulous occult charlatans who would use
the internet to snare and exploit the credulous. But in the last few
weeks this socially responsible image has come into question.
Oh, come now. You've been vilifying me for years now. "In the last few
weeks". Ha.
Post by Gnome d Plume
It has been revealed and confirmed that Schuler was a leader
in a nation-wide scam-Druid cult founded on "a joke."
No, that was alleged. By you. And it's incorrect. I doubt you could find
any Druids or former Druids at all who would say I was their "leader" in any
Druidic cult. Nor has anyone but you ever described Bonewits' Druidic
activities as a "scam".

It's the same old slander revisited.
Post by Gnome d Plume
He then made certain other
confessions that have seriously undermined his conservative position.
It's not my position. It's your imaginary version of my position.
Post by Gnome d Plume
His latest attempt at dis-information is the allegation that a noted
author of occult books and producer of occult/magical video
documentaries
You mean C-A-R-R-O-L-L R-U-N-Y-O-N? It's your *name*, Carroll. Can't you
even bring yourself to say it?
Post by Gnome d Plume
is ashamed of his given name and avoids using it in
public whenever possible.
You have admitted that you are uncomfortable with it because you were teased
about it as a child. You have deleted it on numerous occasions just in the
past few weeks, when I started referring to you by your given name rather
than that childish nickname you affect. I never said you avoid it "whenever
possible". That's just another lie you made up. You do avoid it a lot.
Post by Gnome d Plume
Just to record "straight" ;-) let's see if the great Dr. Schuler's
(1.) The Book of Solomon's Magick (1996) by Carroll "Poke" Runyon,
M.A. presently in it's 9th printing.
Be sure you get that "Poke" in there, so everybody knows not to call you
"Carroll".
Post by Gnome d Plume
(2.) The Magick of Solomon (1996) VHS video written and produced by
Carroll "Poke" Runyon, M.A.,-- released in 2004 in an expanded DVD 2nd
Edition.
There's that nickname again. Remember, everybody, Carroll, doesn;t want you
to call him "Carroll".
Post by Gnome d Plume
(3.) Secrets of the Golden Dawn Cypher Manuscript (1997) by Carroll
"Poke" Runyon, M.A. , 3rd printing 2002.
"Poked" again.
Post by Gnome d Plume
(4.) Seasonal Rites of Baal and Astarte (1998) by Carroll "Poke"
Runyon, M.A., 2nd printing 2004.
Yet another "Poke". See the pttern? Every mention of "Carroll" is followed
by the nickname so that people will remember to call him the nickname
instead of the given name.
Post by Gnome d Plume
(5.) The Seventh Ray, Book I, The Blue Ray, (1999) edited by Carroll
"Poke" Runyon, M.A.
(6.) The Seventh Ray, Book II, The Red Ray, (2000) edited by Carroll
"Poke" Runyon, M.A.
(7.) Dark Mirror of Magick (2001) VHS video, produced by Carroll
"Poke" Punyon --released in 2004 in an expanded DVD 2nd Edition.
Pokepokepokepokepoke.

Remember, everyone! Don't call him "Carroll". It brings back all those
terrible childhood memories that he just can't get rid of, no matter how
many times he befuddles his senses by staring into a mirror in a dark room.
Post by Gnome d Plume
Is he suggesting that there are two Carroll
"Poke" Runyons?
There it is again! Carroll simply can't bear to see his name in its
unadorned state.
Post by Gnome d Plume
One would think that if this were true, the "Poke
Runyon" that wrote novels for Pyramid and Jove, and stories for Argosy
Magazine would object to having his distinctive first name (included
in quotation marks) between Carroll and Runyon
Now it's "Carroll and Runyon". Your given name is Carroll Runyon.
Avctuially, to be more precise it's Carroll Runyon, Junior. Does the
"junior" part really gag you, too?
Post by Gnome d Plume
It appears that they are both the same person (and not ashamed of it )
Although he talks about himself in the third person, as if he were someone
else. He also uses sock-puppets in which he pretends that he's someone
else. When confronted with an image of himself as potentially gay, he
constructed a "Gnome-clone", a phony identity piled on top of yet another
phony identity.
Post by Gnome d Plume
But thanks for the plug, Tommy Boy. Ultimately you always manage
to boost our sales. ****
Yes, I'll bet lots of people want a fucked-up aging has-been who's afraid of
his own name as their magical role model. They're just flocking to your
church now, aren't they? How many members have you got at the moment,
Carroll? Two? Three?
Gnome d Plume
2004-06-23 07:12:04 UTC
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Post by Tom
Post by Gnome d Plume
**** Until recently it has been assumed, here on alt.magick, that Tom
Schuler is a very well educated, erudite, scientifically inclined
champion of the rational and logical perspective opposing the
supernatural claims of unscrupulous occult charlatans who would use
the internet to snare and exploit the credulous. But in the last few
weeks this socially responsible image has come into question.
Oh, come now. You've been vilifying me for years now. "In the last few
weeks". Ha.
Post by Gnome d Plume
It has been revealed and confirmed that Schuler was a leader
in a nation-wide scam-Druid cult founded on "a joke."
No, that was alleged. By you. ****No. By you**** And it's incorrect. ****No. Correct.****
I doubt you could find any Druids or former Druids at all who would say I was their "leader"
in any Druidic cult. ****(If they wouldn't admit it I wouldn't blame them!)****
Nor has anyone but you ever described Bonewits' Druidic activities as a "scam".
****Wrong again. You said it was "a joke" and Bonewits described it seriously in
Adler's book. That's a "scam" ----or were you fibbing when you said it was a joke?***
(little snip)
Post by Tom
You mean C-A-R-R-O-L-L R-U-N-Y-O-N? It's your *name*, Carroll. Can't you
even bring yourself to say it?
(another little snip)
Just to record "straight" ;-) let's see if the great Dr. Schuler's
claim has any veracity:

(1.) The Book of Solomon's Magick (1996) by Carroll "Poke" Runyon,
M.A. presently in it's 9th printing.
(2.) The Magick of Solomon (1996) VHS video written and produced by
Carroll "Poke" Runyon, M.A.,-- released in 2004 in an expanded DVD 2nd
Edition.
(3.) Secrets of the Golden Dawn Cypher Manuscript (1997) by Carroll
"Poke" Runyon, M.A. , 3rd printing 2002.
(4.) Seasonal Rites of Baal and Astarte (1998) by Carroll "Poke"
Runyon, M.A., 2nd printing 2004.
(5.) The Seventh Ray, Book I, The Blue Ray, (1999) edited by Carroll
"Poke" Runyon, M.A.
(6.) The Seventh Ray, Book II, The Red Ray, (2000) edited by Carroll
"Poke" Runyon, M.A.
(7.) Dark Mirror of Magick (2001) VHS video, produced by Carroll
"Poke" Punyon --released in 2004 in an expanded DVD 2nd Edition.

These titles are available from Amazon and Barnes & Noble, making
this list easy to confirm---so just what is it that our
"Archdruid-turned-skeptic" with the murky occult background, is
trying to establish? Is he suggesting that there are two Carroll
"Poke" Runyons? One would think that if this were true, the "Poke
Runyon" that wrote novels for Pyramid and Jove, and stories for Argosy
Magazine would object to having his distinctive first name included
(in quotation marks) between Carroll and Runyon----maybe Schuler
thinks the legendary Poke Runyon is dead and doesn't mind having his
name stolen?
But if that's true, how come we find these novels listed currently:

(1.) Drell Master (2001) by Poke Runyon

(2.) From the Tower of Darkness (2002) by Poke Runyon

(both available from Amazon) So why isn't Poke suing Carroll?
It appears that they are both the same person (and not ashamed of it )
and it is our strangely conflicted scam Archdruid who has descended
into an irrational state wherein he believes that one Runyon is at war
with the other. It would be more logical to assume that the
huckstering, counter-culture phoney druid is at war with the ethical,
moral debunking pseudo scientist.....
It does appear that way, doesn't it?
Tom
2004-06-23 22:31:34 UTC
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I see you have again changed the thread title so as to eliminate that awful,
horrible effeminate-sounding name that brings back all those bad memories of
your childhood traumas at the hands of other children.

Carroll Runyon. *sigh*

<***@unowhere.com>

Heh.

"He's a real nowhere man.
Sitting in his nowhere land
Making all his nowhere plans
For nobody."
(1.) The Book of Solomon's Magick (1996) by Carroll "I Am *Not* A Sissy,
You Big Poopy-Pants!" Runyon,
M.A.ma's Boy, presently in it's 9th printing.
(2.) The Magick of Solomon (1996) VHS video written and produced by
Carroll "I Am *Not* A Sissy, You Big Poopy-Pants!" Runyon, M.A.ma's Boy,--
released in 2004 in an expanded DVD > 2nd Edition.
(3.) Secrets of the Golden Dawn Cypher Manuscript (1997) by Carroll
"I Am *Not* A Sissy, You Big Poopy-Pants!" Runyon, M.A.ma's Boy, 3rd
printing 2002.
(4.) Seasonal Rites of Baal and Astarte (1998) by Carroll "I Am *Not* A
Sissy, You Big Poopy-Pants!"
Runyon, M.A.ma's Boy, 2nd printing 2004.
(5.) The Seventh Ray, Book I, The Blue Ray, (1999) edited by Carroll
"I Am *Not* A Sissy, You Big Poopy-Pants!" Runyon, M.A.ma's Boy
(6.) The Seventh Ray, Book II, The Red Ray, (2000) edited by Carroll
"I Am *Not* A Sissy, You Big Poopy-Pants!" Runyon, M.A.ma's Boy
(7.) Dark Mirror of Magick (2001) VHS video, produced by Carroll
"I Am *Not* A Sissy, You Big Poopy-Pants!" Runyon --released in
2004 in an expanded DVD 2nd Edition.
These vanity press titles are available from AmazingBooks.com and Blarney
& IgNoble.

Was it the girls in your own class who picked on you, Carroll, or those big,
mean fourth grade boys?
Gnome d Plume
2004-06-23 23:00:55 UTC
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Post by Tom
I see you have again changed the thread title so as to eliminate that awful,
horrible effeminate-sounding name that brings back all those bad memories of
your childhood traumas at the hands of other children.
Carroll Runyon. *sigh*
Heh.
"He's a real nowhere man.
Sitting in his nowhere land
Making all his nowhere plans
For nobody."
(1.) The Book of Solomon's Magick (1996) by Carroll "I Am *Not* A Sissy,
You Big Poopy-Pants!" Runyon,
M.A.ma's Boy, presently in it's 9th printing.
(2.) The Magick of Solomon (1996) VHS video written and produced by
Carroll "I Am *Not* A Sissy, You Big Poopy-Pants!" Runyon, M.A.ma's Boy,--
released in 2004 in an expanded DVD > 2nd Edition.
(3.) Secrets of the Golden Dawn Cypher Manuscript (1997) by Carroll
"I Am *Not* A Sissy, You Big Poopy-Pants!" Runyon, M.A.ma's Boy, 3rd
printing 2002.
(4.) Seasonal Rites of Baal and Astarte (1998) by Carroll "I Am *Not* A
Sissy, You Big Poopy-Pants!"
Runyon, M.A.ma's Boy, 2nd printing 2004.
(5.) The Seventh Ray, Book I, The Blue Ray, (1999) edited by Carroll
"I Am *Not* A Sissy, You Big Poopy-Pants!" Runyon, M.A.ma's Boy
(6.) The Seventh Ray, Book II, The Red Ray, (2000) edited by Carroll
"I Am *Not* A Sissy, You Big Poopy-Pants!" Runyon, M.A.ma's Boy
(7.) Dark Mirror of Magick (2001) VHS video, produced by Carroll
"I Am *Not* A Sissy, You Big Poopy-Pants!" Runyon --released in
2004 in an expanded DVD 2nd Edition.
These vanity press titles are available from AmazingBooks.com and Blarney
& IgNoble.
Was it the girls in your own class who picked on you, Carroll, or those big,
mean fourth grade boys?
**** At this point you've gone beyond recovering any credibility. I
suppose the gentlemanly thing to do is give a whipped and wining cur a
chance to slink off and hide behind the trash cans in the alley. Snarl
and show your teeth a few more times if you need to---and then just
go away. *****

Gnome
catherine yronwode
2004-06-24 03:49:40 UTC
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Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Gnome d Plume
(1.) The Book of Solomon's Magick (1996) by Carroll
"I Am *Not* A Sissy, You Big Poopy-Pants!" Runyon,
M.A.ma's Boy, presently in it's 9th printing.
[etc. for line after line after line]
Post by Gnome d Plume
**** At this point you've gone beyond recovering any credibility.
<understatement of the year>

So ... *Tom Schuler* actually wrote that stuff?!?

That's very interesting, coming so soon after the recent exchange in
which Nguyen prodded at Tom intellectually until Tom broke down and
called him a "stupid fuckwad."

We may be witnessing the final flaming expiry of Tree Planter Tom the
Joking Druid and the fork-flinging rebirth of ... Blue Rajah!

cat yronwode
Alexander Mulligan
2004-06-24 04:56:44 UTC
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Post by catherine yronwode
Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Gnome d Plume
(1.) The Book of Solomon's Magick (1996) by Carroll
"I Am *Not* A Sissy, You Big Poopy-Pants!" Runyon,
M.A.ma's Boy, presently in it's 9th printing.
[etc. for line after line after line]
Post by Gnome d Plume
**** At this point you've gone beyond recovering any credibility.
<understatement of the year>
So ... *Tom Schuler* actually wrote that stuff?!?
That's very interesting, coming so soon after the recent exchange in
which Nguyen prodded at Tom intellectually until Tom broke down and
called him a "stupid fuckwad."
We may be witnessing the final flaming expiry of Tree Planter Tom the
Joking Druid and the fork-flinging rebirth of ... Blue Rajah!
There's a thought to give wise men and women pause.

Do you suppose he'll wear a cape?


<+>
--
Bells Ring Under Cerulean Ecstasy
catherine yronwode
2004-06-24 08:03:48 UTC
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Post by Alexander Mulligan
Post by catherine yronwode
We may be witnessing the final flaming expiry of Tree Planter Tom the
Joking Druid and the fork-flinging rebirth of ... Blue Rajah!
There's a thought to give wise men and women pause.
Do you suppose he'll wear a cape?
Yes! And a turban!!!
Blazin' Tommy D.
2004-06-24 13:48:06 UTC
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Post by catherine yronwode
Post by Alexander Mulligan
Post by catherine yronwode
We may be witnessing the final flaming expiry of Tree Planter Tom the
Joking Druid and the fork-flinging rebirth of ... Blue Rajah!
There's a thought to give wise men and women pause.
Do you suppose he'll wear a cape?
Yes! And a turban!!!
BTD: Don't forget those funky little silver sparkle shoes with the upturned
toes:)
Alexander Mulligan
2004-06-24 17:19:27 UTC
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Post by catherine yronwode
Post by Alexander Mulligan
Post by catherine yronwode
We may be witnessing the final flaming expiry of Tree Planter Tom the
Joking Druid and the fork-flinging rebirth of ... Blue Rajah!
There's a thought to give wise men and women pause.
Do you suppose he'll wear a cape?
Yes! And a turban!!!
That's a problem. I'm sure they don't make them that big.

<+>
--
Bells Ring Under Cerulean Ecstasy
Tom
2004-06-24 17:36:47 UTC
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Post by Alexander Mulligan
That's a problem. I'm sure they don't make them that big.
How's your imaginary commune doing these days, Bruce?

Nice to see you ally yourself with the rest of the liars. Keep those ranks
close.
Alexander Mulligan
2004-06-24 18:04:31 UTC
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Post by Tom
Post by Alexander Mulligan
That's a problem. I'm sure they don't make them that big.
How's your imaginary commune doing these days, Bruce?
Nice to see you ally yourself with the rest of the liars. Keep those ranks
close.
Things are going well, Tom. And I am not going to let a shit-mouthed
punk like you bring me down.

You may read my posts if you wish. I choose to ignore yours from this
point onward.

Yes, Einstein, that's what happens when you chronically mistreat people:
They leave you to wallow in your own shit.

Been through all this with you before, and it is *not* going to happen
again.

Bad-bye,


<+>
--
Bells Ring Under Cerulean Ecstasy
Tom
2004-06-25 16:26:58 UTC
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Post by Alexander Mulligan
Post by Tom
How's your imaginary commune doing these days, Bruce?
Nice to see you ally yourself with the rest of the liars. Keep those ranks
close.
Things are going well, Tom. And I am not going to let a shit-mouthed
punk like you bring me down.
That's good. Proj on.
Post by Alexander Mulligan
You may read my posts if you wish. I choose to ignore yours from this
point onward.
I'm absolutely crushed, of course.
Joseph Littleshoes
2004-06-24 20:28:57 UTC
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Post by catherine yronwode
Post by Alexander Mulligan
Do you suppose he'll wear a cape?
Yes! And a turban!!!
Hey!!! I resemble that remark!
--
J (caped & turbaned) L
Tom
2004-06-24 16:00:25 UTC
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Post by catherine yronwode
So ... *Tom Schuler* actually wrote that stuff?!?
Ah, here's yet another post from the lady who claims she hardly ever thinks
of me.
Post by catherine yronwode
That's very interesting, coming so soon after the recent exchange in
which Nguyen prodded at Tom intellectually until Tom broke down and
called him a "stupid fuckwad."
This must be the first time a self-proclaimed troll's activities have been
described as "intellectual prodding".
Post by catherine yronwode
We may be witnessing the final flaming expiry of Tree Planter Tom the
Joking Druid and the fork-flinging rebirth of ... Blue Rajah!
Ah, name-calling. More "intellectual prodding", I see.

If I had a nickle for every lie these wankers tell, I'd be a rich man.
Tom
2004-06-24 15:54:46 UTC
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Post by Gnome d Plume
**** At this point you've gone beyond recovering any credibility.
LOL!! Pots and kettles!
Post by Gnome d Plume
I suppose the gentlemanly thing to do is give a whipped and wining cur a
chance to slink off and hide behind the trash cans in the alley.
OK, I'll be a gentleman and give you that chance. Slink off and hide now,
Carroll.
Gnome d Plume
2004-06-23 19:01:40 UTC
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On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 05:41:13 GMT, "Tom" <***@earthlink.net>
wrote:

(Mercifully big snip)
Post by Tom
Post by Gnome d Plume
But thanks for the plug, Tommy Boy. Ultimately you always manage
to boost our sales. ****
Yes, I'll bet lots of people want a fucked-up aging has-been who's afraid of
his own name as their magical role model. They're just flocking to your
church now, aren't they? How many members have you got at the moment,
Carroll? Two? Three?
**** Oh, we have a few more than that.....but nowhere near as many
dupes as you managed to rope in with your Druid scam. What was it?
12 groves in 7 States? But then it seems that the phoney stuff always
attracts more people ----for awhile at least. Remember, we were there
before you started and we are still here, while you and your
counter-culture "Druids" are long gone. *****

G.
Tom
2004-06-23 23:35:45 UTC
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"Gnome d Plume" <***@unowhere.com> (another pseudonym for Carroll
Runyon, leader, and sole proprietor, of a very small cult that has been on
the losing end of a competition with other pagan groups for years, even when
Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Tom
Yes, I'll bet lots of people want a fucked-up aging has-been who's afraid of
his own name as their magical role model. They're just flocking to your
church now, aren't they? How many members have you got at the moment,
Carroll? Two? Three?
**** Oh, we have a few more than that....
Four? At one time? Isn't that a personal best for you?
Post by Gnome d Plume
.but nowhere near as many
dupes as you managed to rope in with your Druid scam. What was it?
12 groves in 7 States?
That was back in the early '80's. The numbers have grown considerably since
then. I looked them up.

Just for the record, though, I didn't run all those groves or recruit their
members. Neither did Isaac. That's just more of your ongoing slander
against a pagan group that, even without actually trying, was (and is)
wildly more popular than yours has ever been, despite your best efforts for
more than twenty years. That must chafe your ass something fierce.
Post by Gnome d Plume
But then it seems that the phoney stuff always
attracts more people -
That's precisely what you count on. Your list of phony attractors is not a
short one. However, not even making all those phony claims you've made can
keep people interested once they see what a screwed up person you are.
Post by Gnome d Plume
---for awhile at least. Remember, we were there
before you started and we are still here, while you and your
counter-culture "Druids" are long gone. *****
The original RDNA grove in Carleton, Minnesota, is still going strong.

http://www.geocities.com/mikerdna/faq.html

"Back in 1963 at Carleton College in Northfield, MN USA, some students
objected to a mandatory attendance of religious services, so they protested
by making a bizarre group and attending it regularly. The requirement was
thus mocked and was withdrawn. Members found it groovy and continued to
participate in the group in order to explore world faiths and personal paths
in an open and honest way. As they graduated, they started groups in other
states. By the 1980s there were about 10 groves scattered across the
country. Then Isaac Bonewits left to form Ar nDraiocht Fein (ADF) Druidism,
which later splintered and soon Henge of Keltria Druidism appeared.
Nowadays, there are lots of sophisticated groups in America that can trace
their roots to our simple little group, which still putters about."

So, you claim "we were there before you started", eh? What were you doing
in 1963, Carroll? According to your own web page, your group didn't jump on
the pagan bandwagon until 1969, when paganism was already becoming a pretty
popular fad. Looks like you got caught making false brags yet again,
although that's nothing new, as anyone who has been following your
ridiculous parade of misstatements and disinformation can readily see.

As for your claim that the Reformed Druids are "long gone":

http://www.geocities.com/mikerdna/wheregrove.html

"Total of Past Groves (before 1996): 55+, currently known groves: 28+
Average Grove Lifespan: 3 years or so. Average size: 4 people
Current RDNA membership: Between 2500 and 4000 total members with 400
grove-bound members, and a rumored 110 priest/esses. (90% of both are not
grove-oriented)"

Somebody should inform all these people that they don't exist, by
proclamation of Pope Carroll, head of the New Inquisition.

If anyone wants to know what Carroll chooses to call a "scam", read the FAQ.
Here's the link again.

http://www.geocities.com/mikerdna/faq.html
Blazin' Tommy D.
2004-06-24 00:29:26 UTC
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"Tom" <***@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:ltoCc.15567$***@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...

[clip]
Post by Tom
Post by Gnome d Plume
---for awhile at least. Remember, we were there
before you started and we are still here, while you and your
counter-culture "Druids" are long gone. *****
The original RDNA grove in Carleton, Minnesota, is still going strong.
http://www.geocities.com/mikerdna/faq.html
"Back in 1963 at Carleton College in Northfield, MN USA, some students
objected to a mandatory attendance of religious services, so they protested
by making a bizarre group and attending it regularly. The requirement was
thus mocked and was withdrawn. Members found it groovy and continued to
participate in the group in order to explore world faiths and personal paths
in an open and honest way. As they graduated, they started groups in other
states. By the 1980s there were about 10 groves scattered across the
country. Then Isaac Bonewits left to form Ar nDraiocht Fein (ADF) Druidism,
which later splintered and soon Henge of Keltria Druidism appeared.
Nowadays, there are lots of sophisticated groups in America that can trace
their roots to our simple little group, which still putters about."
So, you claim "we were there before you started", eh? What were you doing
in 1963, Carroll? According to your own web page, your group didn't jump on
the pagan bandwagon until 1969, when paganism was already becoming a pretty
popular fad. Looks like you got caught making false brags yet again,
although that's nothing new, as anyone who has been following your
ridiculous parade of misstatements and disinformation can readily see.
http://www.geocities.com/mikerdna/wheregrove.html
"Total of Past Groves (before 1996): 55+, currently known groves: 28+
Average Grove Lifespan: 3 years or so. Average size: 4 people
Current RDNA membership: Between 2500 and 4000 total members with 400
grove-bound members, and a rumored 110 priest/esses. (90% of both are not
grove-oriented)"
Somebody should inform all these people that they don't exist, by
proclamation of Pope Carroll, head of the New Inquisition.
If anyone wants to know what Carroll chooses to call a "scam", read the FAQ.
Here's the link again.
http://www.geocities.com/mikerdna/faq.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

BTD: So Tom Schuler is a Druid. But Schuler is German or Dutch isn't it?
Gnome d Plume
2004-06-24 00:48:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 00:29:26 GMT, "Blazin' Tommy D."
<***@stny.rr.com> wrote:

(Snip)
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
BTD: So Tom Schuler is a Druid. But Schuler is German or Dutch isn't it?
**** Hummmm---He doesn't sound "Druish" ??? ****

G.
Blazin' Tommy D.
2004-06-24 01:05:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Gnome d Plume
On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 00:29:26 GMT, "Blazin' Tommy D."
(Snip)
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
BTD: So Tom Schuler is a Druid. But Schuler is German or Dutch isn't it?
**** Hummmm---He doesn't sound "Druish" ??? ****
G.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD:o

I was just wondering if this is one of those -e.g., a secret manuscript was
found in a hollowed out pumpkin in a New Hampshire, &c., proving that "A" is
a direct descendant of "B" and consanguinitly speaking . . . Druids are
actually Dutch?!
Peter Stuyvesant was actually Druish, erm I mean, a Druid!
Gnome d Plume
2004-06-24 02:26:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 01:05:04 GMT, "Blazin' Tommy D."
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Post by Gnome d Plume
On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 00:29:26 GMT, "Blazin' Tommy D."
(Snip)
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
BTD: So Tom Schuler is a Druid. But Schuler is German or Dutch isn't it?
**** Hummmm---He doesn't sound "Druish" ??? ****
G.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD:o
I was just wondering if this is one of those -e.g., a secret manuscript was
found in a hollowed out pumpkin in a New Hampshire, &c., proving that "A" is
a direct descendant of "B" and consanguinitly speaking . . . Druids are
actually Dutch?!
Peter Stuyvesant was actually Druish, erm I mean, a Druid!
**** Maybe he came from Mel Brooks' planet Druidia?..... I've been
looking through my copy of Margot Adler's book *Drawing Down the Moon*
with more interest now that Lord Thomas has shown us that there are
still jolly Druids partying in the oak groves and missing under the
kisseltoe. I can sympathize with starting such a goofball religion in
college at that time (1960s). I remember having to go to chapel every
Tuesday unless you could prove you weren't "a Christian." I would have
been a "Druid" too! Also LeVey's Church of Satan developed a sizeable
out of town membership based on the effect of flashing the membership
card at persistent evangelicals. *****

Gnome
Blazin' Tommy D.
2004-06-24 13:55:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Gnome d Plume
On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 01:05:04 GMT, "Blazin' Tommy D."
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Post by Gnome d Plume
On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 00:29:26 GMT, "Blazin' Tommy D."
(Snip)
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
BTD: So Tom Schuler is a Druid. But Schuler is German or Dutch isn't it?
**** Hummmm---He doesn't sound "Druish" ??? ****
G.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD:o
I was just wondering if this is one of those -e.g., a secret manuscript was
found in a hollowed out pumpkin in a New Hampshire, &c., proving that "A" is
a direct descendant of "B" and consanguinitly speaking . . . Druids are
actually Dutch?!
Peter Stuyvesant was actually Druish, erm I mean, a Druid!
**** Maybe he came from Mel Brooks' planet Druidia?..... I've been
looking through my copy of Margot Adler's book *Drawing Down the Moon*
with more interest now that Lord Thomas has shown us that there are
still jolly Druids partying in the oak groves and missing under the
kisseltoe. I can sympathize with starting such a goofball religion in
college at that time (1960s). I remember having to go to chapel every
Tuesday unless you could prove you weren't "a Christian." I would have
been a "Druid" too! Also LeVey's Church of Satan developed a sizeable
out of town membership based on the effect of flashing the membership
card at persistent evangelicals. *****
Gnome
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: All kidding aside, the Druids were (If I recall correctly) the
inhabitants of Ireland booted out by St. Patrick? Blackstone attributes to
them aspects of the common law. They apparently had their own language and
alphabet; but much of the info regarding them appeears to be speculative, so
it would seem to be a ripe base to be exploited by the sort of direct
descendant bosh so unnecessarily prevalent in the various occult circles
I often wondered about this -- directly descended form who -- Christ? Stan?
Pan? "Giles Goat Boy"?
Tom
2004-06-24 15:22:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
BTD: All kidding aside, the Druids were (If I recall correctly) the
inhabitants of Ireland booted out by St. Patrick?
You just aren't paying attention, Tommy. No wonder you're such a fool. You
don't have a clue what the people around you are talking about.

The Reformed Druids claim no identity in common with the ancient Druids.

http://www.geocities.com/mikerdna/faq.html




Blackstone attributes to
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
them aspects of the common law. They apparently had their own language and
alphabet; but much of the info regarding them appeears to be speculative, so
it would seem to be a ripe base to be exploited by the sort of direct
descendant bosh so unnecessarily prevalent in the various occult circles
I often wondered about this -- directly descended form who -- Christ? Stan?
Pan? "Giles Goat Boy"?
Blazin' Tommy D.
2004-06-24 15:51:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tom
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
BTD: All kidding aside, the Druids were (If I recall correctly) the
inhabitants of Ireland booted out by St. Patrick?
You just aren't paying attention, Tommy. No wonder you're such a fool.
You
Post by Tom
don't have a clue what the people around you are talking about.
The Reformed Druids claim no identity in common with the ancient Druids.
http://www.geocities.com/mikerdna/faq.html
Blackstone attributes to
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
them aspects of the common law. They apparently had their own language and
alphabet; but much of the info regarding them appeears to be
speculative,
Post by Tom
so
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
it would seem to be a ripe base to be exploited by the sort of direct
descendant bosh so unnecessarily prevalent in the various occult circles
I often wondered about this -- directly descended form who -- Christ?
Stan?
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Pan? "Giles Goat Boy"?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: Sounds like something flaky nerds would do.
So this is your claim to radicalism?
Or just the ad hominem insults?
Tom
2004-06-24 16:50:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Post by Tom
The Reformed Druids claim no identity in common with the ancient Druids.
http://www.geocities.com/mikerdna/faq.html
BTD: Sounds like something flaky nerds would do.
So this is your claim to radicalism?
Or just the ad hominem insults?
I tried to inform you of your error in confusing ancient Druids with the
Reformed Druids, but all you do is post more insults.
Blazin' Tommy D.
2004-06-24 23:58:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tom
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Post by Tom
The Reformed Druids claim no identity in common with the ancient Druids.
http://www.geocities.com/mikerdna/faq.html
BTD: Sounds like something flaky nerds would do.
So this is your claim to radicalism?
Or just the ad hominem insults?
I tried to inform you of your error in confusing ancient Druids with the
Reformed Druids, but all you do is post more insults.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: There was no confusion. Apparently you went to some religious school
(Bob Jones University?) that required you attend church services so to get
out of going to said services you started some sort of Druid club. Going to
such a school seems pretty "establishment" to me.
Tom
2004-06-25 16:18:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Post by Tom
I tried to inform you of your error in confusing ancient Druids with the
Reformed Druids, but all you do is post more insults.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: There was no confusion.
No? You still haven't got your facts straight. Read on.
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Apparently you went to some religious school
(Bob Jones University?) that required you attend church services
so to get out of going to said services you started some sort of
Druid club.
You clearly didn't read very much of the link I gave you. I am not
mentioned on it at all.

I wasn't even in high school at the time. The guy who started the "Druid
club" was Isaac Bonewits, not me. It was plainly and clearly stated that
this is what he did while attending Carleton College, not Bob Jones
University. You're still confused. I don;t blame you. Given the fact that
Carroll has deliberately attempted to blur the distinction between my
actions and Isaac's in order to create the false impression that I was some
kind of ambitious pagan leader, it's not surprising that you, as gullible
and prejudiced as you are, can't figure out what's fact and what's fiction.
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Going to
such a school seems pretty "establishment" to me.
Carroll attended church sevices meekly every week because he was ordered to
by his own college administration (Bob Jones University?) rather than rebel
as Isaac did and force the administration to withdraw the rule. Sounds
like Carroll's a lot more "establishment" than Isaac if we apply your
reasoning equally.
Blazin' Tommy D.
2004-06-26 22:37:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tom
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Post by Tom
I tried to inform you of your error in confusing ancient Druids with the
Reformed Druids, but all you do is post more insults.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: There was no confusion.
No? You still haven't got your facts straight. Read on.
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Apparently you went to some religious school
(Bob Jones University?) that required you attend church services
so to get out of going to said services you started some sort of
Druid club.
You clearly didn't read very much of the link I gave you. I am not
mentioned on it at all.
I wasn't even in high school at the time. The guy who started the "Druid
club" was Isaac Bonewits, not me. It was plainly and clearly stated that
this is what he did while attending Carleton College, not Bob Jones
University. You're still confused. I don;t blame you. Given the fact that
Carroll has deliberately attempted to blur the distinction between my
actions and Isaac's in order to create the false impression that I was some
kind of ambitious pagan leader, it's not surprising that you, as gullible
and prejudiced as you are, can't figure out what's fact and what's fiction.
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Going to
such a school seems pretty "establishment" to me.
Carroll attended church sevices meekly every week because he was ordered to
by his own college administration (Bob Jones University?) rather than rebel
as Isaac did and force the administration to withdraw the rule. Sounds
like Carroll's a lot more "establishment" than Isaac if we apply your
reasoning equally.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: Unimportant and uninteresting
Tom
2004-06-26 23:16:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Post by Tom
No? You still haven't got your facts straight. Read on.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: Unimportant and uninteresting
Yes, it's pretty clear that you're not the lesast bit interested in getting
the facts straight.

That's why I'm going to start ignoring you again. There's just no point in
trying to communicate with the unwilling.
Blazin' Tommy D.
2004-06-27 01:42:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tom
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Post by Tom
No? You still haven't got your facts straight. Read on.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: Unimportant and uninteresting
Yes, it's pretty clear that you're not the lesast bit interested in getting
the facts straight.
That's why I'm going to start ignoring you again. There's just no point in
trying to communicate with the unwilling.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: Thank you
Tom
2004-06-24 15:10:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Gnome d Plume
I can sympathize with starting such a goofball religion in
college at that time (1960s). I remember having to go to chapel every
Tuesday unless you could prove you weren't "a Christian." I would have
been a "Druid" too!
If you hadn't been a timid, conformist, Establishment kiss-ass at the time,
you might have. Instead, you tucked your little tail between your legs and
did what you were told.
Blazin' Tommy D.
2004-06-24 15:21:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tom
Post by Gnome d Plume
I can sympathize with starting such a goofball religion in
college at that time (1960s). I remember having to go to chapel every
Tuesday unless you could prove you weren't "a Christian." I would have
been a "Druid" too!
If you hadn't been a timid, conformist, Establishment kiss-ass at the time,
you might have. Instead, you tucked your little tail between your legs and
did what you were told.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: In all truth Tom I am astounded by the fact that you're NOT in the Bush
administration
Tom
2004-06-24 16:44:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
BTD: In all truth Tom I am astounded by the fact that you're NOT in the Bush
administration
I'm sure if you rant on long enough, you'll convince yourself that I am.
Tom
2004-06-24 15:01:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Gnome d Plume
On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 00:29:26 GMT, "Blazin' Tommy D."
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
BTD: So Tom Schuler is a Druid. But Schuler is German or Dutch isn't it?
**** Hummmm---He doesn't sound "Druish" ??? ****
Ha ha! I get it! A racist joke!
Blazin' Tommy D.
2004-06-24 15:06:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tom
Post by Gnome d Plume
On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 00:29:26 GMT, "Blazin' Tommy D."
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
BTD: So Tom Schuler is a Druid. But Schuler is German or Dutch isn't it?
**** Hummmm---He doesn't sound "Druish" ??? ****
Ha ha! I get it! A racist joke!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: How so?
Tom
2004-06-24 16:43:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Post by Tom
Post by Gnome d Plume
On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 00:29:26 GMT, "Blazin' Tommy D."
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
BTD: So Tom Schuler is a Druid. But Schuler is German or Dutch isn't
it?
Post by Tom
Post by Gnome d Plume
**** Hummmm---He doesn't sound "Druish" ??? ****
Ha ha! I get it! A racist joke!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: How so?
Tommy, I know all too well that explaining things to you has no effect on
your cluelessness.
Tom
2004-06-24 15:00:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
BTD: So Tom Schuler is a Druid. But Schuler is German or Dutch isn't it?
Wrong again, Tommy, as usual. I am not a Druid. For a short while, many
years ago, I formed a Reformed Druid Grove as a joke. Most Reformed Druid
Groves are formed as light humor by people who are interested in the
spirituality of Nature but who also don't take themselves too seriously.

My surname is of German origin, but I have ancestral roots in Ireland,
Poland, France, and Germany. Actually, the German background is a rather
small part, comprising only about an eighth of my relatives for the past
century or so.

It's never a good idea to try to classify a person's beliefs by national
origin, though. You should know better, but then, if you knew better, you
wouldn't be the fool you are.
Blazin' Tommy D.
2004-06-24 15:19:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tom
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
BTD: So Tom Schuler is a Druid. But Schuler is German or Dutch isn't it?
Wrong again, Tommy, as usual. I am not a Druid. For a short while, many
years ago, I formed a Reformed Druid Grove as a joke. Most Reformed Druid
Groves are formed as light humor by people who are interested in the
spirituality of Nature but who also don't take themselves too seriously.
My surname is of German origin, but I have ancestral roots in Ireland,
Poland, France, and Germany. Actually, the German background is a rather
small part, comprising only about an eighth of my relatives for the past
century or so.
It's never a good idea to try to classify a person's beliefs by national
origin, though. You should know better, but then, if you knew better, you
wouldn't be the fool you are.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: As usual your presumptions and conclusions always derived therefrom
have no basis in fact
What is clear is your penchant for mutilating other people's post and then
misrepresenting what we, in this case I actually said.
The original post still exists. Performing a valid analysis of your
comments, they have no purpose other than making ad hominem insults. Are you
wearing your beanie copter?

Otherwise you admit what Poke said, so this aspect of your campaign against
him has no basis in fact, either.
Tom
2004-06-24 16:42:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Post by Tom
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
BTD: So Tom Schuler is a Druid. But Schuler is German or Dutch isn't it?
Wrong again, Tommy, as usual. I am not a Druid. For a short while, many
years ago, I formed a Reformed Druid Grove as a joke. Most Reformed Druid
Groves are formed as light humor by people who are interested in the
spirituality of Nature but who also don't take themselves too seriously.
My surname is of German origin, but I have ancestral roots in Ireland,
Poland, France, and Germany. Actually, the German background is a rather
small part, comprising only about an eighth of my relatives for the past
century or so.
It's never a good idea to try to classify a person's beliefs by national
origin, though. You should know better, but then, if you knew better, you
wouldn't be the fool you are.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: As usual your presumptions and conclusions always derived therefrom
have no basis in fact
Let's see.

"I am not a Druid." Fact.

"For a short while, many years ago, I formed a Reformed Druid Grove as a
joke." Fact.

"Most Reformed Druid Groves are formed as light humor by people who are
interested in the spirituality of Nature but who also don't take themselves
too seriously." Fact.

"My surname is of German origin, but I have ancestral roots in Ireland,
Poland, France, and Germany." Fact.

"Actually, the German background is a rather small part, comprising only
about an eighth of my relatives for the past century or so." Fact.

"It's never a good idea to try to classify a person's beliefs by national
origin, though." Fact.

BTD: "So Tom Schuler is a Druid." Presumption/conclusion not based on fact.

"You should know better, but then, if you knew better, you wouldn't be the
fool you are." A conclusion based on the fact that you continually display
the fact that you draw ridiculous conclusions when you don't even know what
the facts are, even after you have been referred to them.
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
What is clear is your penchant for mutilating other people's post and then
misrepresenting what we, in this case I actually said.
So, now you're claiming that you actually didn't write this?
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Post by Tom
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
BTD: So Tom Schuler is a Druid.
Performing a valid analysis of your comments, they have no purpose
other than making ad hominem insults. Are you wearing your beanie
copter?
Do you think that asking a person if they're wearing a beanie copter is an
"ad hominem insult"?
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Otherwise you admit what Poke said, so this aspect of your campaign against
him has no basis in fact, either.
Hmm, so it appears that your reasoning is, if I'm not wearing a beanie
copter, I must admit what Carroll claimed. Well, that kind of "reasoning"
supports my conclusion that you're a fool.
Blazin' Tommy D.
2004-06-24 23:55:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tom
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Post by Tom
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
BTD: So Tom Schuler is a Druid. But Schuler is German or Dutch isn't
it?
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Post by Tom
Wrong again, Tommy, as usual. I am not a Druid. For a short while,
many
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Post by Tom
years ago, I formed a Reformed Druid Grove as a joke. Most Reformed
Druid
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Post by Tom
Groves are formed as light humor by people who are interested in the
spirituality of Nature but who also don't take themselves too seriously.
My surname is of German origin, but I have ancestral roots in Ireland,
Poland, France, and Germany. Actually, the German background is a
rather
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Post by Tom
small part, comprising only about an eighth of my relatives for the past
century or so.
It's never a good idea to try to classify a person's beliefs by national
origin, though. You should know better, but then, if you knew better,
you
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Post by Tom
wouldn't be the fool you are.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: As usual your presumptions and conclusions always derived therefrom
have no basis in fact
Let's see.
"I am not a Druid." Fact.
"For a short while, many years ago, I formed a Reformed Druid Grove as a
joke." Fact.
"Most Reformed Druid Groves are formed as light humor by people who are
interested in the spirituality of Nature but who also don't take themselves
too seriously." Fact.
"My surname is of German origin, but I have ancestral roots in Ireland,
Poland, France, and Germany." Fact.
"Actually, the German background is a rather small part, comprising only
about an eighth of my relatives for the past century or so." Fact.
"It's never a good idea to try to classify a person's beliefs by national
origin, though." Fact.
BTD: "So Tom Schuler is a Druid." Presumption/conclusion not based on fact.
"You should know better, but then, if you knew better, you wouldn't be the
fool you are." A conclusion based on the fact that you continually display
the fact that you draw ridiculous conclusions when you don't even know what
the facts are, even after you have been referred to them.
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
What is clear is your penchant for mutilating other people's post and then
misrepresenting what we, in this case I actually said.
So, now you're claiming that you actually didn't write this?
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Post by Tom
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
BTD: So Tom Schuler is a Druid.
Performing a valid analysis of your comments, they have no purpose
other than making ad hominem insults. Are you wearing your beanie
copter?
Do you think that asking a person if they're wearing a beanie copter is an
"ad hominem insult"?
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Otherwise you admit what Poke said, so this aspect of your campaign
against
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
him has no basis in fact, either.
Hmm, so it appears that your reasoning is, if I'm not wearing a beanie
copter, I must admit what Carroll claimed. Well, that kind of "reasoning"
supports my conclusion that you're a fool.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: Gnome said you started some sort of Druid club and you admitted it
Tom
2004-06-25 16:49:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
BTD: Gnome said you started some sort of Druid club and you admitted it
Yo'd better look again, Tommy. Things are not as Carroll would like you to
believe they are.
Blazin' Tommy D.
2004-06-26 22:37:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tom
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
BTD: Gnome said you started some sort of Druid club and you admitted it
Yo'd better look again, Tommy. Things are not as Carroll would like you to
believe they are.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: Why?
Gnome d Plume
2004-06-24 00:43:55 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tom
Runyon, leader, and sole proprietor, of a very small cult that has been on
the losing end of a competition with other pagan groups for years, even when
Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Tom
Yes, I'll bet lots of people want a fucked-up aging has-been who's afraid
of
Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Tom
his own name as their magical role model. They're just flocking to your
church now, aren't they? How many members have you got at the moment,
Carroll? Two? Three?
**** Oh, we have a few more than that....
Four? At one time? Isn't that a personal best for you?
Post by Gnome d Plume
.but nowhere near as many
dupes as you managed to rope in with your Druid scam. What was it?
12 groves in 7 States?
That was back in the early '80's. The numbers have grown considerably since
then. I looked them up.
Just for the record, though, I didn't run all those groves or recruit their
members. Neither did Isaac. That's just more of your ongoing slander
against a pagan group that, even without actually trying, was (and is)
wildly more popular than yours has ever been, despite your best efforts for
more than twenty years. That must chafe your ass something fierce.
Post by Gnome d Plume
But then it seems that the phoney stuff always
attracts more people -
That's precisely what you count on. Your list of phony attractors is not a
short one. However, not even making all those phony claims you've made can
keep people interested once they see what a screwed up person you are.
Post by Gnome d Plume
---for awhile at least. Remember, we were there
before you started and we are still here, while you and your
counter-culture "Druids" are long gone. *****
The original RDNA grove in Carleton, Minnesota, is still going strong.
http://www.geocities.com/mikerdna/faq.html
"Back in 1963 at Carleton College in Northfield, MN USA, some students
objected to a mandatory attendance of religious services, so they protested
by making a bizarre group and attending it regularly. The requirement was
thus mocked and was withdrawn. Members found it groovy and continued to
participate in the group in order to explore world faiths and personal paths
in an open and honest way. As they graduated, they started groups in other
states. By the 1980s there were about 10 groves scattered across the
country. Then Isaac Bonewits left to form Ar nDraiocht Fein (ADF) Druidism,
which later splintered and soon Henge of Keltria Druidism appeared.
Nowadays, there are lots of sophisticated groups in America that can trace
their roots to our simple little group, which still putters about."
So, you claim "we were there before you started", eh? What were you doing
in 1963, Carroll? According to your own web page, your group didn't jump on
the pagan bandwagon until 1969, when paganism was already becoming a pretty
popular fad. Looks like you got caught making false brags yet again,
although that's nothing new, as anyone who has been following your
ridiculous parade of misstatements and disinformation can readily see.
http://www.geocities.com/mikerdna/wheregrove.html
"Total of Past Groves (before 1996): 55+, currently known groves: 28+
Average Grove Lifespan: 3 years or so. Average size: 4 people
Current RDNA membership: Between 2500 and 4000 total members with 400
grove-bound members, and a rumored 110 priest/esses. (90% of both are not
grove-oriented)"
Somebody should inform all these people that they don't exist, by
proclamation of Pope Carroll, head of the New Inquisition.
If anyone wants to know what Carroll chooses to call a "scam", read the FAQ.
Here's the link again.
http://www.geocities.com/mikerdna/faq.html
**** Yep. You're right. There are some left---and you are also right
in what you said about them and Isaac to begin with: It began as a
joke and it's still a joke--and they're are some of them still having
fun with it. Sorry about my premature eulogy. Party on, druid-dudes!
****

Gnome

Gnome
Tom
2004-06-24 15:41:54 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Tom
Runyon, leader, and sole proprietor, of a very small cult that has been on
the losing end of a competition with other pagan groups for years, even when
Post by Gnome d Plume
---for awhile at least. Remember, we were there
before you started and we are still here, while you and your
counter-culture "Druids" are long gone. *****
The original RDNA grove in Carleton, Minnesota, is still going strong.
http://www.geocities.com/mikerdna/faq.html
"Back in 1963 at Carleton College in Northfield, MN USA, some students
objected to a mandatory attendance of religious services, so they protested
by making a bizarre group and attending it regularly. The requirement was
thus mocked and was withdrawn. Members found it groovy and continued to
participate in the group in order to explore world faiths and personal paths
in an open and honest way. As they graduated, they started groups in other
states. By the 1980s there were about 10 groves scattered across the
country. Then Isaac Bonewits left to form Ar nDraiocht Fein (ADF) Druidism,
which later splintered and soon Henge of Keltria Druidism appeared.
Nowadays, there are lots of sophisticated groups in America that can trace
their roots to our simple little group, which still putters about."
So, you claim "we were there before you started", eh? What were you doing
in 1963, Carroll? According to your own web page, your group didn't jump on
the pagan bandwagon until 1969, when paganism was already becoming a pretty
popular fad. Looks like you got caught making false brags yet again,
although that's nothing new, as anyone who has been following your
ridiculous parade of misstatements and disinformation can readily see.
http://www.geocities.com/mikerdna/wheregrove.html
"Total of Past Groves (before 1996): 55+, currently known groves: 28+
Average Grove Lifespan: 3 years or so. Average size: 4 people
Current RDNA membership: Between 2500 and 4000 total members with 400
grove-bound members, and a rumored 110 priest/esses. (90% of both are not
grove-oriented)"
Somebody should inform all these people that they don't exist, by
proclamation of Pope Carroll, head of the New Inquisition.
If anyone wants to know what Carroll chooses to call a "scam", read the FAQ.
Here's the link again.
http://www.geocities.com/mikerdna/faq.html
**** Yep. You're right. There are some left-
Not just "some left". There are far more now than there were at the time of
Adler's now rather dated book. If you're going to back down, you might as
well back down honestly, instead of trying to cling to some part of the lie.
Post by Gnome d Plume
--and you are also right in what you said about them and Isaac to
begin with: It began as a joke and it's still a joke--
So where's the "scam" part, Carroll? Where's the "phoney stuff" with which
I was supposed to have "managed to rope in dupes"? Are you going to stick
with that lie, or give it up as well?

What about the part where, as you claim, Isaac Bonewits formed the Reformed
Druids in order to take drugs and have deviate sex? Are you going to stick
to that, too?

You've made some small progress here, Carroll, by admitting that you were
completely wrong in at least the most obviously false claims you were
making, but you have a long, long way to go before you will approach a
reasonable facsimile of honesty.
Gnome d Plume
2004-06-24 15:57:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Gnome d Plume
Carroll
Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Tom
Runyon, leader, and sole proprietor, of a very small cult that has been
on
Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Tom
the losing end of a competition with other pagan groups for years, even
when
Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Tom
Post by Gnome d Plume
---for awhile at least. Remember, we were there
before you started and we are still here, while you and your
counter-culture "Druids" are long gone. *****
The original RDNA grove in Carleton, Minnesota, is still going strong.
http://www.geocities.com/mikerdna/faq.html
"Back in 1963 at Carleton College in Northfield, MN USA, some students
objected to a mandatory attendance of religious services, so they
protested
Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Tom
by making a bizarre group and attending it regularly. The requirement was
thus mocked and was withdrawn. Members found it groovy and continued to
participate in the group in order to explore world faiths and personal
paths
Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Tom
in an open and honest way. As they graduated, they started groups in
other
Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Tom
states. By the 1980s there were about 10 groves scattered across the
country. Then Isaac Bonewits left to form Ar nDraiocht Fein (ADF)
Druidism,
Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Tom
which later splintered and soon Henge of Keltria Druidism appeared.
Nowadays, there are lots of sophisticated groups in America that can
trace
Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Tom
their roots to our simple little group, which still putters about."
So, you claim "we were there before you started", eh? What were you
doing
Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Tom
in 1963, Carroll? According to your own web page, your group didn't jump
on
Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Tom
the pagan bandwagon until 1969, when paganism was already becoming a
pretty
Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Tom
popular fad. Looks like you got caught making false brags yet again,
although that's nothing new, as anyone who has been following your
ridiculous parade of misstatements and disinformation can readily see.
http://www.geocities.com/mikerdna/wheregrove.html
"Total of Past Groves (before 1996): 55+, currently known groves: 28+
Average Grove Lifespan: 3 years or so. Average size: 4 people
Current RDNA membership: Between 2500 and 4000 total members with 400
grove-bound members, and a rumored 110 priest/esses. (90% of both are not
grove-oriented)"
Somebody should inform all these people that they don't exist, by
proclamation of Pope Carroll, head of the New Inquisition.
If anyone wants to know what Carroll chooses to call a "scam", read the
FAQ.
Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Tom
Here's the link again.
http://www.geocities.com/mikerdna/faq.html
**** Yep. You're right. There are some left-
Not just "some left". There are far more now than there were at the time of
Adler's now rather dated book. If you're going to back down, you might as
well back down honestly, instead of trying to cling to some part of the lie.
Post by Gnome d Plume
--and you are also right in what you said about them and Isaac to
begin with: It began as a joke and it's still a joke--
So where's the "scam" part, Carroll? Where's the "phoney stuff" with which
I was supposed to have "managed to rope in dupes"? Are you going to stick
with that lie, or give it up as well?
What about the part where, as you claim, Isaac Bonewits formed the Reformed
Druids in order to take drugs and have deviate sex? Are you going to stick
to that, too?
You've made some small progress here, Carroll, by admitting that you were
completely wrong in at least the most obviously false claims you were
making, but you have a long, long way to go before you will approach a
reasonable facsimile of honesty.
**** I said "Your" counter-culture druid group, you twit! That's your
itty-bitty little independent "Grove." You started it long after 1963
and it was long gone 15 years ago.*****

G.
Tom
2004-06-24 17:32:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
"Gnome d Plume" <***@unowhere.com> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...
\> >
Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Tom
So where's the "scam" part, Carroll? Where's the "phoney stuff" with which
I was supposed to have "managed to rope in dupes"? Are you going to stick
with that lie, or give it up as well?
What about the part where, as you claim, Isaac Bonewits formed the Reformed
Druids in order to take drugs and have deviate sex? Are you going to stick
to that, too?
**** I said "Your" counter-culture druid group, you twit!
I'm glad you and Isaac were really not out to con any one out of their
money or wash their brains with your phoney Druidism.
Actually what was really bad about 1970s pop-paganism were scams
like yours: "religions" used as thinly veiled excuses for sexual deviate\
and/or drug culture main agendas
That's your itty-bitty little independent "Grove."
Was it? Then why did you say this?
Post by Gnome d Plume
At one point they had
branches in seven States and 12 active Groves, hardly a "joking"
proposition, especially the way Bonewits and Adler describe it
If you were only talking about me, then why did you keep bringing up all
those other groves and what Isaac told Margot Adler about them?

Well, let's pretend, for the purpose of exposing more of your lies even
within the absurd context you have invented to hide behind, that you were
only talking about my "itty-bitty little independent 'Grove'." How is it
that you, who at that time never even knew who I was or what I was doing,
somehow divined that my reasons for establishing (but not in any sense
"running" anything, other than to act as host) a Grove were to take drugs
and have deviate sex? You just make that up. Like you made up the claim
that I was a friend of Jeffrey Poland, a convicted sex offender, which is
another lie you have completely failed to support with even the flimsiest
shred of evidence?
Post by Gnome d Plume
You started it long after 1963
and it was long gone 15 years ago.*****
Yes, in 1963, I was thirteen years old. Is it surprising that I wasn't at
all interested in founding any new religions back then? Neither were you.
You were a college student who was meekly and hypocritically going to
Christian church services every week at the bidding of your conservative
masters. You don;t come off any more noble than anybody else, Carroll. In
fact, you appear to have been as big a hypocrite then as you are now.

But I'm far from long gone, however fondly you might wish it. Here I am,
Carroll, busting your various lies and attempted slander over and over. The
silly RDNA Grove, which never presented itself as anything but silly, passed
away quite quickly, since it was a joke, not a power-play like yours is.
Nobody took it seriously enough to try to perpetuate it. Only you and that
other inveterate liar Cat the Trinket Hustler, while desperately looking for
something, anything, with which to distract me from busting your lies, have
dredged up this tiny and irrelevant lark and tried to make it into something
it was not.
Lavender Gnome-Clone
2004-06-24 18:23:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tom
\> >
Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Tom
So where's the "scam" part, Carroll? Where's the "phoney stuff" with
which
Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Tom
I was supposed to have "managed to rope in dupes"? Are you going to
stick
Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Tom
with that lie, or give it up as well?
What about the part where, as you claim, Isaac Bonewits formed the
Reformed
Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Tom
Druids in order to take drugs and have deviate sex? Are you going to
stick
Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Tom
to that, too?
**** I said "Your" counter-culture druid group, you twit!
I'm glad you and Isaac were really not out to con any one out of their
money or wash their brains with your phoney Druidism.
Actually what was really bad about 1970s pop-paganism were scams
like yours: "religions" used as thinly veiled excuses for sexual deviate\
and/or drug culture main agendas
That's your itty-bitty little independent "Grove."
Was it? Then why did you say this?
Post by Gnome d Plume
At one point they had
branches in seven States and 12 active Groves, hardly a "joking"
proposition, especially the way Bonewits and Adler describe it
If you were only talking about me, then why did you keep bringing up all
those other groves and what Isaac told Margot Adler about them?
Well, let's pretend, for the purpose of exposing more of your lies even
within the absurd context you have invented to hide behind, that you were
only talking about my "itty-bitty little independent 'Grove'." How is it
that you, who at that time never even knew who I was or what I was doing,
somehow divined that my reasons for establishing (but not in any sense
"running" anything, other than to act as host) a Grove were to take drugs
and have deviate sex? You just make that up. Like you made up the claim
that I was a friend of Jeffrey Poland, a convicted sex offender, which is
another lie you have completely failed to support with even the flimsiest
shred of evidence?
Post by Gnome d Plume
You started it long after 1963
and it was long gone 15 years ago.*****
Yes, in 1963, I was thirteen years old. Is it surprising that I wasn't at
all interested in founding any new religions back then? Neither were you.
You were a college student who was meekly and hypocritically going to
Christian church services every week at the bidding of your conservative
masters. You don;t come off any more noble than anybody else, Carroll. In
fact, you appear to have been as big a hypocrite then as you are now.
But I'm far from long gone, however fondly you might wish it. Here I am,
Carroll, busting your various lies and attempted slander over and over. The
silly RDNA Grove, which never presented itself as anything but silly, passed
away quite quickly, since it was a joke, not a power-play like yours is.
Nobody took it seriously enough to try to perpetuate it. Only you and that
other inveterate liar Cat the Trinket Hustler, while desperately looking for
something, anything, with which to distract me from busting your lies, have
dredged up this tiny and irrelevant lark and tried to make it into something
it was not.
+++ Hummmmmmmm???? The man's name was Jefferson Poland. He was
generally referred to as "Jeff Poland." Did his close friends call him
"Jeffrey," ??? +++

Lavender
Tom
2004-06-25 16:54:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Lavender Gnome-Clone
Post by Tom
Well, let's pretend, for the purpose of exposing more of your lies even
within the absurd context you have invented to hide behind, that you were
only talking about my "itty-bitty little independent 'Grove'." How is it
that you, who at that time never even knew who I was or what I was doing,
somehow divined that my reasons for establishing (but not in any sense
"running" anything, other than to act as host) a Grove were to take drugs
and have deviate sex? You just make that up. Like you made up the claim
that I was a friend of Jeffrey Poland, a convicted sex offender, which is
another lie you have completely failed to support with even the flimsiest
shred of evidence?
+++ Hummmmmmmm???? The man's name was Jefferson Poland. He was
generally referred to as "Jeff Poland." Did his close friends call him
"Jeffrey," ??? +++
I stand corrected. I obviously don't know the guy's name as well as you do.

I see you have still not offered the slightest shred of evidence that I was
this person's friend, as you have claimed.

It's just part of the Carroll Runyon School of the Big Lie.
Blazin' Tommy D.
2004-06-25 00:11:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
[clip]
Post by Tom
Yes, in 1963, I was thirteen years old.
[clip]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: Well that about dinks it. Tom is a 57 year old retard.
I thought he was a retarded 20 something since his posts appear to be those
of a 15 year old.
Did you ever attend University?
Tom
2004-06-25 16:58:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Post by Tom
Yes, in 1963, I was thirteen years old.
BTD: Well that about dinks it. Tom is a 57 year old retard.
Not only are you a fool, but you can't count.
Blazin' Tommy D.
2004-06-26 22:40:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tom
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Post by Tom
Yes, in 1963, I was thirteen years old.
BTD: Well that about dinks it. Tom is a 57 year old retard.
Not only are you a fool, but you can't count.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: Don't you wish
You have Asiya Tom, why are bothering me?
If you want to know something then ask me
Don;t be ashamed of your ignorance
It's how you learn
Asiya
2004-06-24 05:14:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Gnome d Plume
(1.) The Book of Solomon's Magick (1996) by Carroll "Poke" Runyon,
M.A. presently in it's 9th printing.
(2.) The Magick of Solomon (1996) VHS video written and produced by
Carroll "Poke" Runyon, M.A.,-- released in 2004 in an expanded DVD 2nd
Edition.
(3.) Secrets of the Golden Dawn Cypher Manuscript (1997) by Carroll
"Poke" Runyon, M.A. , 3rd printing 2002.
(4.) Seasonal Rites of Baal and Astarte (1998) by Carroll "Poke"
Runyon, M.A., 2nd printing 2004.
(5.) The Seventh Ray, Book I, The Blue Ray, (1999) edited by Carroll
"Poke" Runyon, M.A.
(6.) The Seventh Ray, Book II, The Red Ray, (2000) edited by Carroll
"Poke" Runyon, M.A.
(7.) Dark Mirror of Magick (2001) VHS video, produced by Carroll
"Poke" Punyon --released in 2004 in an expanded DVD 2nd Edition.
These titles are available from Amazon and Barnes & Noble, making
this list is easy to confirm---so just what is it that our
"Archdruid-turned-skeptic" with the murky occult background, is
trying to establish? Is he suggesting that there are two Carroll
"Poke" Runyons? One would think that if this were true, the "Poke
Runyon" that wrote novels for Pyramid and Jove, and stories for Argosy
Magazine would object to having his distinctive first name (included
in quotation marks) between Carroll and Runyon----maybe Schuler thinks
the legendary Poke Runyon is dead and doesn't mind having his name
stolen?
(1.) Drell Master (2001) by Poke Runyon
(2.) From the Tower of Darkness (2002) by Poke Runyon
(both available from Amazon) So why isn't Poke suing Carroll?
It appears that they are both the same person (and not ashamed of it )
and it is our strangely conflicted Archdruid who has descended into an
irrational state wherein he believes that one Runyon is at war with
the other. It would be more logical to assume that the counter-culture
phoney druid is at war with the debunking pseudo scientist.
But thanks for the plug, Tommy Boy. Ultimately you always manage
to boost our sales. ****
Yet you get your back up when someone calls you a huckster...
--
Asiya
**********
http://www.asiya.org/
Gnome d Plume
2004-06-24 06:11:54 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 05:14:44 GMT, "Asiya"
Post by Asiya
Post by Gnome d Plume
(1.) The Book of Solomon's Magick (1996) by Carroll "Poke" Runyon,
M.A. presently in it's 9th printing.
(2.) The Magick of Solomon (1996) VHS video written and produced by
Carroll "Poke" Runyon, M.A.,-- released in 2004 in an expanded DVD 2nd
Edition.
(3.) Secrets of the Golden Dawn Cypher Manuscript (1997) by Carroll
"Poke" Runyon, M.A. , 3rd printing 2002.
(4.) Seasonal Rites of Baal and Astarte (1998) by Carroll "Poke"
Runyon, M.A., 2nd printing 2004.
(5.) The Seventh Ray, Book I, The Blue Ray, (1999) edited by Carroll
"Poke" Runyon, M.A.
(6.) The Seventh Ray, Book II, The Red Ray, (2000) edited by Carroll
"Poke" Runyon, M.A.
(7.) Dark Mirror of Magick (2001) VHS video, produced by Carroll
"Poke" Punyon --released in 2004 in an expanded DVD 2nd Edition.
These titles are available from Amazon and Barnes & Noble, making
this list is easy to confirm---so just what is it that our
"Archdruid-turned-skeptic" with the murky occult background, is
trying to establish? Is he suggesting that there are two Carroll
"Poke" Runyons? One would think that if this were true, the "Poke
Runyon" that wrote novels for Pyramid and Jove, and stories for Argosy
Magazine would object to having his distinctive first name (included
in quotation marks) between Carroll and Runyon----maybe Schuler thinks
the legendary Poke Runyon is dead and doesn't mind having his name
stolen?
(1.) Drell Master (2001) by Poke Runyon
(2.) From the Tower of Darkness (2002) by Poke Runyon
(both available from Amazon) So why isn't Poke suing Carroll?
It appears that they are both the same person (and not ashamed of it )
and it is our strangely conflicted Archdruid who has descended into an
irrational state wherein he believes that one Runyon is at war with
the other. It would be more logical to assume that the counter-culture
phoney druid is at war with the debunking pseudo scientist.
But thanks for the plug, Tommy Boy. Ultimately you always manage
to boost our sales. ****
Yet you get your back up when someone calls you a huckster...
**** Are you married or otherwise related to this pathetic, frenetic
professor of "scientific" archdruidism?
Publishing a list of the books and productions written,
published and released under the name he claims I'm ashamed to use is
not huckstering. It's simply showing everyone---except you---what a
fool he is. Now when you charge $40.00 for an "intangible service"
over the internet and then side with this pseudo-academic when he
goes on a smearing campaign against another occultist who offers
original, tangible products that meet professional standards, you'd
better expect to get your own "intangible" profit-making operation
looked at in comparison. And I later apologized for involving you
and made it clear that I did not consider you to be any more of "a
huckster" than I was---but you seem to have forgotten that. Look in a
mirror and see what looks back at you. ****

Gnome
Blazin' Tommy D.
2004-06-24 14:01:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Gnome d Plume
On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 05:14:44 GMT, "Asiya"
Post by Asiya
Post by Gnome d Plume
(1.) The Book of Solomon's Magick (1996) by Carroll "Poke" Runyon,
M.A. presently in it's 9th printing.
(2.) The Magick of Solomon (1996) VHS video written and produced by
Carroll "Poke" Runyon, M.A.,-- released in 2004 in an expanded DVD 2nd
Edition.
(3.) Secrets of the Golden Dawn Cypher Manuscript (1997) by Carroll
"Poke" Runyon, M.A. , 3rd printing 2002.
(4.) Seasonal Rites of Baal and Astarte (1998) by Carroll "Poke"
Runyon, M.A., 2nd printing 2004.
(5.) The Seventh Ray, Book I, The Blue Ray, (1999) edited by Carroll
"Poke" Runyon, M.A.
(6.) The Seventh Ray, Book II, The Red Ray, (2000) edited by Carroll
"Poke" Runyon, M.A.
(7.) Dark Mirror of Magick (2001) VHS video, produced by Carroll
"Poke" Punyon --released in 2004 in an expanded DVD 2nd Edition.
These titles are available from Amazon and Barnes & Noble, making
this list is easy to confirm---so just what is it that our
"Archdruid-turned-skeptic" with the murky occult background, is
trying to establish? Is he suggesting that there are two Carroll
"Poke" Runyons? One would think that if this were true, the "Poke
Runyon" that wrote novels for Pyramid and Jove, and stories for Argosy
Magazine would object to having his distinctive first name (included
in quotation marks) between Carroll and Runyon----maybe Schuler thinks
the legendary Poke Runyon is dead and doesn't mind having his name
stolen?
(1.) Drell Master (2001) by Poke Runyon
(2.) From the Tower of Darkness (2002) by Poke Runyon
(both available from Amazon) So why isn't Poke suing Carroll?
It appears that they are both the same person (and not ashamed of it )
and it is our strangely conflicted Archdruid who has descended into an
irrational state wherein he believes that one Runyon is at war with
the other. It would be more logical to assume that the counter-culture
phoney druid is at war with the debunking pseudo scientist.
But thanks for the plug, Tommy Boy. Ultimately you always manage
to boost our sales. ****
Yet you get your back up when someone calls you a huckster...
**** Are you married or otherwise related to this pathetic, frenetic
professor of "scientific" archdruidism?
Publishing a list of the books and productions written,
published and released under the name he claims I'm ashamed to use is
not huckstering. It's simply showing everyone---except you---what a
fool he is. Now when you charge $40.00 for an "intangible service"
over the internet and then side with this pseudo-academic when he
goes on a smearing campaign against another occultist who offers
original, tangible products that meet professional standards, you'd
better expect to get your own "intangible" profit-making operation
looked at in comparison. And I later apologized for involving you
and made it clear that I did not consider you to be any more of "a
huckster" than I was---but you seem to have forgotten that. Look in a
mirror and see what looks back at you. ****
Gnome
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: I appreciate the fact the you're here and take a lot of shit from
various people to stay here; and I know that Cat feels the same way.
Tanks:)
Tom
2004-06-24 14:34:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Gnome d Plume
On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 05:14:44 GMT, "Asiya"
Post by Asiya
Yet you get your back up when someone calls you a huckster...
**** Are you married or otherwise related to this pathetic, frenetic
professor of "scientific" archdruidism?
Let's see... If someone doesn't agree with you, they must be married to me.
By that reasoning, you must be married to Blazin' Tommy D. Have you been in
Massachussetts recently?
Post by Gnome d Plume
Publishing a list of the books and productions written,
published and released under the name he claims I'm ashamed to use is
not huckstering.
That list shows that you *are* indeed ashamed of it, because you couldn't
even write your name without simultaneously telling everyone that you don't
want to be addressed by that name.
Post by Gnome d Plume
It's simply showing everyone---except you---what a
fool he is.
Now you and your pitiful handful of deceitful kooks are "everyone". Well, I
can see how your world would necessarily narrow drastically, given your
obsessive desire for world fame juxtaposed on the fact that almost nobody in
the world, except your handful of cronies would ever take you seriously,
once they figured out what a screwed up slimeball you are. It's only
natural for you to blot out the whole world and pretend that it consists
only of your buddies.
Blazin' Tommy D.
2004-06-24 15:04:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tom
Post by Gnome d Plume
On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 05:14:44 GMT, "Asiya"
Post by Asiya
Yet you get your back up when someone calls you a huckster...
**** Are you married or otherwise related to this pathetic, frenetic
professor of "scientific" archdruidism?
Let's see... If someone doesn't agree with you, they must be married to me.
By that reasoning, you must be married to Blazin' Tommy D. Have you been in
Massachussetts recently?
Post by Gnome d Plume
Publishing a list of the books and productions written,
published and released under the name he claims I'm ashamed to use is
not huckstering.
That list shows that you *are* indeed ashamed of it, because you couldn't
even write your name without simultaneously telling everyone that you don't
want to be addressed by that name.
Post by Gnome d Plume
It's simply showing everyone---except you---what a
fool he is.
Now you and your pitiful handful of deceitful kooks are "everyone". Well, I
can see how your world would necessarily narrow drastically, given your
obsessive desire for world fame juxtaposed on the fact that almost nobody in
the world, except your handful of cronies would ever take you seriously,
once they figured out what a screwed up slimeball you are. It's only
natural for you to blot out the whole world and pretend that it consists
only of your buddies.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dear Tom & Asiya

Surely you realize by now that your various aspersions directed against
Pokey are unmitigated acts of slander?
You recall how this commenced? You got lost, as usual, in your peculiar
attempts of dissecting peoples arguments which Asiya has now learned from
you by rote; and then when people get tired of this because it's essentially
stupid, you get all frustrated and start calling people names, calling them
a liar, &c, which is like prima facie enormously stupid? Personally, I tried
to draw out aspects of your statements in the attempt to form some sort of
serious discussion, but quite frankly Tom, it's unavoidably clear that you
are incapable of doing this and that's too bad because it is readily
apparent and embarrassing. My approach to it was thinking well Tom's got
this hang up on psychotherapy so he's probably being treated or was treated
by a psychotherapist and this has led him to be assertive in an agoraphobic
sort of way -- allegorically lambasting people on the alt.magick NG; but
whatever it is Tom, it is irrational and boring and you make no attempt nor
make any effort to try to make it less boring or in any manner entertaining
which leads me to think that the result of your psychotherapy is/was a sort
of pseudolobotomy that has left you dull, miserable and you don't even know
why.

Now all of us here make various exaggerations from time to time to exemplify
a point, even you, except you're not very good at it because you take
yourself so seriously; but then either missing the forest for the tree or
missing the tree for the forest you proceed with your pseudo analytical
dissection of the obvious exaggeration which eventually leads to your more
frequently than ever ad hominem insults

I'm all willing to have a little fun from time to time, but this here
campaign you're now on has devolved to shear stupidity. If people don't know
what a trance is and they're reading this NG, they're either a hapless troll
or some sort of Lost in Space Cadet, so what is your point? Do you have any
aside from insulting Poke?
--
http://www.facelink.com/blazintommyd
Tom
2004-06-24 16:25:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Surely you realize by now that your various aspersions directed against
Pokey are unmitigated acts of slander?
When you become a lawyer in the real world, Tommy, I might take some of what
you say a bit more seriously.
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
You recall how this commenced?
Yep. Carroll claimed that psychologists think that hypnosis is some kind of
pathological condition and tried to pass off a 19th Century anthropologist's
claims about physiognomy as current psychological theory. When I disputed
that, providing clear evidence that his claims were false, he launched into
another of his well-known character assassination ploys. I gave him rope
and, sure enough, he hanged himself with it.

Carroll's personal problems became fair game as soon as he tried to smear me
personally.
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Personally, I tried to draw out aspects of your statements in the attempt
to form some sort of serious discussion,
Is the following quote from one of your posts an example of how you conduct
a "serious discussion"?
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
BTD: Everyone of alt.Magick knows that Tom's a big time fan of "The
Spotlight" newspaper and a leading contributor to "The Fund for Economic
Liberty". He has a signed 8 x 10 glossy of Robert Novack on the wall over
this computer. It's true. I was to his house and saw it all: a box of
canceled checks to said fund and many many issues of said paper. Playing
on his phonograph was an LP of Ronald Reagan's greatest speeches. Everyone
in
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
his household was wearing a suit. His Nicaraguan maid offered me a Prozac.
I declined.
Do you thank *anybody* reading this obnoxious tirade of yours would
seriously believe that you intruded yourself into Carroll's smear campaign
in the spirit of open-minded fairness?
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Now all of us here make various exaggerations from time to time to exemplify
a point,
Is that what's you'd call that bizarre spew of complete lies? An
"exaggeration"?
Old Man Tate
2004-06-24 20:57:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 16:25:48 GMT, "Tom" <***@earthlink.net>
wrote:

snip
Post by Tom
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
BTD: Everyone of alt.Magick knows that Tom's a big time fan of "The
Spotlight" newspaper and a leading contributor to "The Fund for Economic
Liberty". He has a signed 8 x 10 glossy of Robert Novack on the wall over
this computer. It's true. I was to his house and saw it all: a box of
canceled checks to said fund and many many issues of said paper. Playing
on his phonograph was an LP of Ronald Reagan's greatest speeches. Everyone
in
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
his household was wearing a suit. His Nicaraguan maid offered me a Prozac.
I declined.
Do you thank *anybody* reading this obnoxious tirade of yours would
seriously believe that you intruded yourself into Carroll's smear campaign
in the spirit of open-minded fairness?
It was kinda obnoxious but nevertheless I thought it was pretty funny.
I just took it as a joke.
Blazin' Tommy D.
2004-06-25 00:04:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Old Man Tate
snip
Post by Tom
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
BTD: Everyone of alt.Magick knows that Tom's a big time fan of "The
Spotlight" newspaper and a leading contributor to "The Fund for Economic
Liberty". He has a signed 8 x 10 glossy of Robert Novack on the wall over
this computer. It's true. I was to his house and saw it all: a box of
canceled checks to said fund and many many issues of said paper. Playing
on his phonograph was an LP of Ronald Reagan's greatest speeches. Everyone
in
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
his household was wearing a suit. His Nicaraguan maid offered me a Prozac.
I declined.
Do you thank *anybody* reading this obnoxious tirade of yours would
seriously believe that you intruded yourself into Carroll's smear campaign
in the spirit of open-minded fairness?
It was kinda obnoxious but nevertheless I thought it was pretty funny.
I just took it as a joke.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: Tom lost that part of his brain.
Blazin' Tommy D.
2004-06-25 00:03:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tom
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Surely you realize by now that your various aspersions directed against
Pokey are unmitigated acts of slander?
When you become a lawyer in the real world, Tommy, I might take some of what
you say a bit more seriously.
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
You recall how this commenced?
Yep. Carroll claimed that psychologists think that hypnosis is some kind of
pathological condition and tried to pass off a 19th Century
anthropologist's
Post by Tom
claims about physiognomy as current psychological theory. When I disputed
that, providing clear evidence that his claims were false, he launched into
another of his well-known character assassination ploys. I gave him rope
and, sure enough, he hanged himself with it.
Carroll's personal problems became fair game as soon as he tried to smear me
personally.
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Personally, I tried to draw out aspects of your statements in the attempt
to form some sort of serious discussion,
Is the following quote from one of your posts an example of how you conduct
a "serious discussion"?
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
BTD: Everyone of alt.Magick knows that Tom's a big time fan of "The
Spotlight" newspaper and a leading contributor to "The Fund for Economic
Liberty". He has a signed 8 x 10 glossy of Robert Novack on the wall over
this computer. It's true. I was to his house and saw it all: a box of
canceled checks to said fund and many many issues of said paper. Playing
on his phonograph was an LP of Ronald Reagan's greatest speeches. Everyone
in
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
his household was wearing a suit. His Nicaraguan maid offered me a Prozac.
I declined.
Do you thank *anybody* reading this obnoxious tirade of yours would
seriously believe that you intruded yourself into Carroll's smear campaign
in the spirit of open-minded fairness?
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Now all of us here make various exaggerations from time to time to
exemplify
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
a point,
Is that what's you'd call that bizarre spew of complete lies? An
"exaggeration"?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: I would call your existence upon earth an exaggeration
Tom
2004-06-25 16:21:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: I would call your existence upon earth an exaggeration
Heh. The report of my existence has been exaggerated.
Blazin' Tommy D.
2004-06-26 22:24:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tom
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: I would call your existence upon earth an exaggeration
Heh. The report of my existence has been exaggerated.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: Your existence is meaningless.
Nihilist
2004-06-24 15:19:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Gnome d Plume
**** Are you married or otherwise related to this pathetic, frenetic
professor of "scientific" archdruidism?
Publishing a list of the books and productions written,
published and released under the name he claims I'm ashamed to use is
not huckstering. It's simply showing everyone---except you---what a
fool he is. Now when you charge $40.00 for an "intangible service"
over the internet and then side with this pseudo-academic when he
goes on a smearing campaign against another occultist who offers
original, tangible products that meet professional standards, you'd
better expect to get your own "intangible" profit-making operation
looked at in comparison. And I later apologized for involving you
and made it clear that I did not consider you to be any more of "a
huckster" than I was---but you seem to have forgotten that. Look in a
mirror and see what looks back at you. ****
Gnome
Because you've been such a nasty man, Mr. Runyon, I've relegated your
book to the bottom of my bookshelf. It will stay there until you make
yourself nice.
Gnome d Plume
2004-06-24 15:52:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Nihilist
Post by Gnome d Plume
**** Are you married or otherwise related to this pathetic, frenetic
professor of "scientific" archdruidism?
Publishing a list of the books and productions written,
published and released under the name he claims I'm ashamed to use is
not huckstering. It's simply showing everyone---except you---what a
fool he is. Now when you charge $40.00 for an "intangible service"
over the internet and then side with this pseudo-academic when he
goes on a smearing campaign against another occultist who offers
original, tangible products that meet professional standards, you'd
better expect to get your own "intangible" profit-making operation
looked at in comparison. And I later apologized for involving you
and made it clear that I did not consider you to be any more of "a
huckster" than I was---but you seem to have forgotten that. Look in a
mirror and see what looks back at you. ****
Gnome
Because you've been such a nasty man, Mr. Runyon, I've relegated your
book to the bottom of my bookshelf. It will stay there until you make
yourself nice.
**** Oh dear!.......but just to be "nice" and make you feel better,
I'll autograph it for you and you can sell it. Somebody was offering a
second-hand signed copy of TBOSM recently for almost three times the
cover price. *****

Helpful Gnome
Nihilist
2004-06-25 18:11:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Somebody was offering a second-hand signed copy of TBOSM recently for almost
three times the cover price.
It wasn't you, was it?
Gnome d Plume
2004-06-25 18:26:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Nihilist
Somebody was offering a second-hand signed copy of TBOSM recently for almost
three times the cover price.
It wasn't you, was it?
**** Nope. Even I wouldn't have the hutzpah to try something like
that. ****

Gnome
Old Man Tate
2004-06-25 21:19:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 18:26:57 GMT, Gnome d Plume
Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Nihilist
Somebody was offering a second-hand signed copy of TBOSM recently for almost
three times the cover price.
It wasn't you, was it?
**** Nope. Even I wouldn't have the hutzpah to try something like
that. ****
Gnome
I don't know about that.
Tom
2004-06-24 16:27:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Nihilist
Because you've been such a nasty man, Mr. Runyon, I've relegated your
book to the bottom of my bookshelf. It will stay there until you make
yourself nice.
Carroll doesn't give a shit if you never read it. He's gotten what he
wanted from you already. You bought the fucking thing. Ka-ching!
Blazin' Tommy D.
2004-06-25 00:34:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tom
Post by Nihilist
Because you've been such a nasty man, Mr. Runyon, I've relegated your
book to the bottom of my bookshelf. It will stay there until you make
yourself nice.
Carroll doesn't give a shit if you never read it. He's gotten what he
wanted from you already. You bought the fucking thing. Ka-ching!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: Aside from the fact that you've never written anything aside from
insults on alt.magick and your general disappointments in life which you
incessantly remind us of and plague this NG with, what exactly is your
complaint about the various works published by Caroll Poke Runyon? Are you
able to cite for us any examples, that we might have a point of reference
other than more of your "Plan 9 From Outer Space" like monologue?
Gnome d Plume
2004-06-25 01:55:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 00:34:13 GMT, "Blazin' Tommy D."
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Post by Tom
Post by Nihilist
Because you've been such a nasty man, Mr. Runyon, I've relegated your
book to the bottom of my bookshelf. It will stay there until you make
yourself nice.
Carroll doesn't give a shit if you never read it. He's gotten what he
wanted from you already. You bought the fucking thing. Ka-ching!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: Aside from the fact that you've never written anything aside from
insults on alt.magick and your general disappointments in life which you
incessantly remind us of and plague this NG with, what exactly is your
complaint about the various works published by Caroll Poke Runyon? Are you
able to cite for us any examples, that we might have a point of reference
other than more of your "Plan 9 From Outer Space" like monologue?
**** Tommy:

Let's give him credit where credit is due. In my updated version of my
*Magick and Hypnosis* article (downloadable on our web site) I had a
footnote citing Rupert Sheldrake's "rat experiments"---actually
Sheldrake had used scientific data collected by other workers in the
field in this instance. Because I failed to qualify this in my
footnote, Tom Schuler ranted and raved for over a week about my
blatant and even fraudulent scientific misrepresentation. I finally
corrected this very minor error just to shut him up. Now I wish I
hadn't. For me it was a niggling nuisance; for him it was a major
triumph. ****

Gnome
http://members.aol.com/CHSOTA/productions.html
Blazin' Tommy D.
2004-06-25 03:18:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Gnome d Plume
On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 00:34:13 GMT, "Blazin' Tommy D."
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Post by Tom
Post by Nihilist
Because you've been such a nasty man, Mr. Runyon, I've relegated your
book to the bottom of my bookshelf. It will stay there until you make
yourself nice.
Carroll doesn't give a shit if you never read it. He's gotten what he
wanted from you already. You bought the fucking thing. Ka-ching!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: Aside from the fact that you've never written anything aside from
insults on alt.magick and your general disappointments in life which you
incessantly remind us of and plague this NG with, what exactly is your
complaint about the various works published by Caroll Poke Runyon? Are you
able to cite for us any examples, that we might have a point of reference
other than more of your "Plan 9 From Outer Space" like monologue?
Let's give him credit where credit is due. In my updated version of my
*Magick and Hypnosis* article (downloadable on our web site) I had a
footnote citing Rupert Sheldrake's "rat experiments"---actually
Sheldrake had used scientific data collected by other workers in the
field in this instance. Because I failed to qualify this in my
footnote, Tom Schuler ranted and raved for over a week about my
blatant and even fraudulent scientific misrepresentation. I finally
corrected this very minor error just to shut him up. Now I wish I
hadn't. For me it was a niggling nuisance; for him it was a major
triumph. ****
Gnome
http://members.aol.com/CHSOTA/productions.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: Pedanticism, the sure sign of a pseudo-intellectual
Plus Tom has no practical knowledge of law. I haven't read the article but
don't see how what you've explained could possibly be misrepresentation.
Niggling. Good choice of words. Tom the Niggler
You know Poke, kindness goes a long way. Schuler here acts like an abused
delinquent. I could just see him standing in the shadows, his
psychotherapist fingering his pipe bowl asks
"Tom, why did you do it; please Tom this could be your last chance to tell
us"
After a considerable pause Tom says
"They tried to make me eat food I don't like"
Collapses in his psychotherapist's arms
But instead of "End of story" Tom comes back to alt.magick
yawn
:)
Gnome d Plume
2004-06-25 04:01:54 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 03:18:22 GMT, "Blazin' Tommy D."
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Post by Gnome d Plume
On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 00:34:13 GMT, "Blazin' Tommy D."
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Post by Tom
Post by Nihilist
Because you've been such a nasty man, Mr. Runyon, I've relegated your
book to the bottom of my bookshelf. It will stay there until you make
yourself nice.
Carroll doesn't give a shit if you never read it. He's gotten what he
wanted from you already. You bought the fucking thing. Ka-ching!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: Aside from the fact that you've never written anything aside from
insults on alt.magick and your general disappointments in life which you
incessantly remind us of and plague this NG with, what exactly is your
complaint about the various works published by Caroll Poke Runyon? Are
you
Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
able to cite for us any examples, that we might have a point of reference
other than more of your "Plan 9 From Outer Space" like monologue?
Let's give him credit where credit is due. In my updated version of my
*Magick and Hypnosis* article (downloadable on our web site) I had a
footnote citing Rupert Sheldrake's "rat experiments"---actually
Sheldrake had used scientific data collected by other workers in the
field in this instance. Because I failed to qualify this in my
footnote, Tom Schuler ranted and raved for over a week about my
blatant and even fraudulent scientific misrepresentation. I finally
corrected this very minor error just to shut him up. Now I wish I
hadn't. For me it was a niggling nuisance; for him it was a major
triumph. ****
Gnome
http://members.aol.com/CHSOTA/productions.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: Pedanticism, the sure sign of a pseudo-intellectual
Plus Tom has no practical knowledge of law. I haven't read the article but
don't see how what you've explained could possibly be misrepresentation.
Niggling. Good choice of words. Tom the Niggler
You know Poke, kindness goes a long way. Schuler here acts like an abused
delinquent. I could just see him standing in the shadows, his
psychotherapist fingering his pipe bowl asks
"Tom, why did you do it; please Tom this could be your last chance to tell
us"
After a considerable pause Tom says
"They tried to make me eat food I don't like"
Collapses in his psychotherapist's arms
But instead of "End of story" Tom comes back to alt.magick
yawn
:)
***** Agreed. Schuler may have a deeper problem. For him this news
group may be like the old "Synanon Game." I had a friend back in the
late 60s who was a very successful aerospace engineer. He was a
liberal humanitarian and felt sympathy for the drug addicts in the
Synanon program---so he decided to offer his time as a "straight" game
player. The way this worked was similar to group therapy except that
the addicts were on one side and the straight volunteers were on the
other. The moderator was pro-addict (or so it seemed to my friend
David). The sessions consisted of the addicts trying to tear down,
shame and belittle the straights. David had to sit there and take
abuse (much of it filthy) from them for an hour at a time each week.
He would then drive by my pad, pace around the room like a tiger
fuming about these arrogant, egotistical, sometimes intelligent but
otherwise worthless human wrecks who insisted on blaming society and
successful people---like himself---- for their insurmountable
problems.
Each time I'd say: "Then David, why do you bother with these
people?"
Each time he'd reply: "Some of them are smarter than I am! And
maybe they're right about society---but damnit, I'm not their enemy.
Why do they attack me personally? I'm there to help them, for God's
sake!"
To which I replied: "You are the face for their fist."
Perhaps this is what we have with Tom? He may need a face for
his fist,---but I'm not like my friend David and alt.magick is not
the Synanon Game. This particular aggression-release outlet of
Schuler's has become dysfunction for him. He doesn't have the support
of the other game players and there is no moderator to protect him
from the stinging backlash when he vents his rage.
He should go somewhere else where he is less known and less
understood. ****

Gnome d Plume
Blazin' Tommy D.
2004-06-26 22:20:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Gnome d Plume
On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 03:18:22 GMT, "Blazin' Tommy D."
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Post by Gnome d Plume
On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 00:34:13 GMT, "Blazin' Tommy D."
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Post by Tom
Post by Nihilist
Because you've been such a nasty man, Mr. Runyon, I've relegated your
book to the bottom of my bookshelf. It will stay there until you make
yourself nice.
Carroll doesn't give a shit if you never read it. He's gotten what he
wanted from you already. You bought the fucking thing. Ka-ching!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: Aside from the fact that you've never written anything aside from
insults on alt.magick and your general disappointments in life which you
incessantly remind us of and plague this NG with, what exactly is your
complaint about the various works published by Caroll Poke Runyon? Are
you
Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
able to cite for us any examples, that we might have a point of reference
other than more of your "Plan 9 From Outer Space" like monologue?
Let's give him credit where credit is due. In my updated version of my
*Magick and Hypnosis* article (downloadable on our web site) I had a
footnote citing Rupert Sheldrake's "rat experiments"---actually
Sheldrake had used scientific data collected by other workers in the
field in this instance. Because I failed to qualify this in my
footnote, Tom Schuler ranted and raved for over a week about my
blatant and even fraudulent scientific misrepresentation. I finally
corrected this very minor error just to shut him up. Now I wish I
hadn't. For me it was a niggling nuisance; for him it was a major
triumph. ****
Gnome
http://members.aol.com/CHSOTA/productions.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: Pedanticism, the sure sign of a pseudo-intellectual
Plus Tom has no practical knowledge of law. I haven't read the article but
don't see how what you've explained could possibly be misrepresentation.
Niggling. Good choice of words. Tom the Niggler
You know Poke, kindness goes a long way. Schuler here acts like an abused
delinquent. I could just see him standing in the shadows, his
psychotherapist fingering his pipe bowl asks
"Tom, why did you do it; please Tom this could be your last chance to tell
us"
After a considerable pause Tom says
"They tried to make me eat food I don't like"
Collapses in his psychotherapist's arms
But instead of "End of story" Tom comes back to alt.magick
yawn
:)
***** Agreed. Schuler may have a deeper problem. For him this news
group may be like the old "Synanon Game." I had a friend back in the
late 60s who was a very successful aerospace engineer. He was a
liberal humanitarian and felt sympathy for the drug addicts in the
Synanon program---so he decided to offer his time as a "straight" game
player. The way this worked was similar to group therapy except that
the addicts were on one side and the straight volunteers were on the
other. The moderator was pro-addict (or so it seemed to my friend
David). The sessions consisted of the addicts trying to tear down,
shame and belittle the straights. David had to sit there and take
abuse (much of it filthy) from them for an hour at a time each week.
He would then drive by my pad, pace around the room like a tiger
fuming about these arrogant, egotistical, sometimes intelligent but
otherwise worthless human wrecks who insisted on blaming society and
successful people---like himself---- for their insurmountable
problems.
Each time I'd say: "Then David, why do you bother with these
people?"
Each time he'd reply: "Some of them are smarter than I am! And
maybe they're right about society---but damnit, I'm not their enemy.
Why do they attack me personally? I'm there to help them, for God's
sake!"
To which I replied: "You are the face for their fist."
Perhaps this is what we have with Tom? He may need a face for
his fist,---but I'm not like my friend David and alt.magick is not
the Synanon Game. This particular aggression-release outlet of
Schuler's has become dysfunction for him. He doesn't have the support
of the other game players and there is no moderator to protect him
from the stinging backlash when he vents his rage.
He should go somewhere else where he is less known and less
understood. ****
Gnome d Plume
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: Gnome, the junkies were correct, your friend was/is their enemy. I'm a
liberal humanitarian too. I would demand the government supply them with
fresh needles, good quality and affordable dope. After all we only live
once. Who in the hell do these happy yahoo DEA agents think they are. Get a
real fucking job already, you know?
Why should I care if someone's a junkie? As long as they have cheap dope and
don't have to rob my house, fence my possessions to score a spoon and
they're not spreading Hep C, HIV, &c then the only other issue is why
society is so fucked up that they would allow people to be so unhappy. And
if this is a necessity under the Police Power -i.e., the State can show a
compelling interest for these people to be so bummed, then let the
motherfuckers get high for Christ sake. THAT'S liberal humanitarianism.
Your friend is a fucking missionary for the GOP and Southern crackers
My brother got involved in a similar thing and it made him miserable as you
describe too. It's because people like that get a few dollars in their
pocket and start to think yeah, yeah, this works this is good
Tom got like that when his wife got a job as a personal law clerk for a
judge and started writing decisions for him -- at least that's what Tom
said. It must be true since he accuses everyone else of being a liar
Piano intro!
"I like the United States of America the land where we live without fear I
like to vote for my choice speak my mind raise my voice yes I like it hear
(are you marching punching a fist in the air for emphasis yet?) I want to
climb to the top of a mountain so high lift my head to the sky and say how
grateful am I for the way that I'm living and working and giving and I'm
thankful more thankful each year. Yes I like it, I like it. I like it
here" - Again!! Piano intro
This Baptist Bible dude that was our substitute teacher music teacher when
JFK was assassinated forced us to sing this song over and over again until
parents complained. Americans are really weird fucked up people and Uncle Al
in that regard was/is correct, best to just leave 'um alone. Problem is
trying to get somewhere where they leave you alone
So, you're suggesting that TOM is some sort of psychotherapist pseudo
hypnotist or whatever? Geez, no wonder he's so fucked up:)

As far as a leave of absinthe:) Yeah. I've gone to different NGs for a time
and it really does give one a fresh perspective; but with Tom, he has a real
ego problem. He can't handle being incorrect. It was sort of a neurosis last
time I was here (about a year ago) but has now become near psychotic. Of
course, as I'm sure Tom will point out, I'm not an expert -- translated, I'm
not a member of the elite -e.g., I don't have a wife who writes a Judges
opinions for him. I've only been practicing as a pro se attorney for the
last 30 or so years, almost exclusively for the last 8. I'd be willing to
bet that I know more about the law than Tom's wife and her lazy social
parasitic Judge put together. Talk about living on the dole:)
hee
hee
hee
Tom Schuler
You heard about his meat grows on trees work didn't ya?
See my answer to Natural Philosopher in this thread
Gnome d Plume
2004-06-27 03:19:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 22:20:05 GMT, "Blazin' Tommy D."
<***@stny.rr.com> wrote:

(Snip)
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
BTD: Pedanticism, the sure sign of a pseudo-intellectual
Plus Tom has no practical knowledge of law. I haven't read the article
but
Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
don't see how what you've explained could possibly be misrepresentation.
Niggling. Good choice of words. Tom the Niggler
You know Poke, kindness goes a long way. Schuler here acts like an abused
delinquent. I could just see him standing in the shadows, his
psychotherapist fingering his pipe bowl asks
"Tom, why did you do it; please Tom this could be your last chance to
tell
Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
us"
After a considerable pause Tom says
"They tried to make me eat food I don't like"
Collapses in his psychotherapist's arms
But instead of "End of story" Tom comes back to alt.magick
yawn
:)
***** Agreed. Schuler may have a deeper problem. For him this news
group may be like the old "Synanon Game." I had a friend back in the
late 60s who was a very successful aerospace engineer. He was a
liberal humanitarian and felt sympathy for the drug addicts in the
Synanon program---so he decided to offer his time as a "straight" game
player. The way this worked was similar to group therapy except that
the addicts were on one side and the straight volunteers were on the
other. The moderator was pro-addict (or so it seemed to my friend
David). The sessions consisted of the addicts trying to tear down,
shame and belittle the straights. David had to sit there and take
abuse (much of it filthy) from them for an hour at a time each week.
He would then drive by my pad, pace around the room like a tiger
fuming about these arrogant, egotistical, sometimes intelligent but
otherwise worthless human wrecks who insisted on blaming society and
successful people---like himself---- for their insurmountable
problems.
Each time I'd say: "Then David, why do you bother with these
people?"
Each time he'd reply: "Some of them are smarter than I am! And
maybe they're right about society---but damnit, I'm not their enemy.
Why do they attack me personally? I'm there to help them, for God's
sake!"
To which I replied: "You are the face for their fist."
Perhaps this is what we have with Tom? He may need a face for
his fist,---but I'm not like my friend David and alt.magick is not
the Synanon Game. This particular aggression-release outlet of
Schuler's has become dysfunction for him. He doesn't have the support
of the other game players and there is no moderator to protect him
from the stinging backlash when he vents his rage.
He should go somewhere else where he is less known and less
understood. ****
Gnome d Plume
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: Gnome, the junkies were correct, your friend was/is their enemy. I'm a
liberal humanitarian too. I would demand the government supply them with
fresh needles, good quality and affordable dope. After all we only live
once. Who in the hell do these happy yahoo DEA agents think they are. Get a
real fucking job already, you know?
Why should I care if someone's a junkie? As long as they have cheap dope and
don't have to rob my house, fence my possessions to score a spoon and
they're not spreading Hep C, HIV, &c then the only other issue is why
society is so fucked up that they would allow people to be so unhappy. And
if this is a necessity under the Police Power -i.e., the State can show a
compelling interest for these people to be so bummed, then let the
motherfuckers get high for Christ sake. THAT'S liberal humanitarianism.
Your friend is a fucking missionary for the GOP and Southern crackers
My brother got involved in a similar thing and it made him miserable as you
describe too. It's because people like that get a few dollars in their
pocket and start to think yeah, yeah, this works this is good
Tom got like that when his wife got a job as a personal law clerk for a
judge and started writing decisions for him -- at least that's what Tom
said. It must be true since he accuses everyone else of being a liar
Piano intro!
"I like the United States of America the land where we live without fear I
like to vote for my choice speak my mind raise my voice yes I like it hear
(are you marching punching a fist in the air for emphasis yet?) I want to
climb to the top of a mountain so high lift my head to the sky and say how
grateful am I for the way that I'm living and working and giving and I'm
thankful more thankful each year. Yes I like it, I like it. I like it
here" - Again!! Piano intro
This Baptist Bible dude that was our substitute teacher music teacher when
JFK was assassinated forced us to sing this song over and over again until
parents complained. Americans are really weird fucked up people and Uncle Al
in that regard was/is correct, best to just leave 'um alone. Problem is
trying to get somewhere where they leave you alone
So, you're suggesting that TOM is some sort of psychotherapist pseudo
hypnotist or whatever? Geez, no wonder he's so fucked up:)
As far as a leave of absinthe:) Yeah. I've gone to different NGs for a time
and it really does give one a fresh perspective; but with Tom, he has a real
ego problem. He can't handle being incorrect. It was sort of a neurosis last
time I was here (about a year ago) but has now become near psychotic. Of
course, as I'm sure Tom will point out, I'm not an expert -- translated, I'm
not a member of the elite -e.g., I don't have a wife who writes a Judges
opinions for him. I've only been practicing as a pro se attorney for the
last 30 or so years, almost exclusively for the last 8. I'd be willing to
bet that I know more about the law than Tom's wife and her lazy social
parasitic Judge put together. Talk about living on the dole:)
hee
hee
hee
Tom Schuler
You heard about his meat grows on trees work didn't ya?
See my answer to Natural Philosopher in this thread
**** Essentially I agree with you. The "War on Drugs" was lost long
ago and has only succeeded in putting a greater percentage of our
citizens behind bars than any other nation on earth. In the case of my
friend David, however, he was mislead by Synanon. He believed that the
organization was trying to "rehabilitate" the junkies and whether you
approve of society or not, that means learning to get along with it
and in it. Actually their hidden agenda--which they finally
revealed--was "transhabilitation." They were trying to build a
separate self-supporting community for these folks that would insulate
them from the rest of our savage world of "civilization." With this in
mind they victimized David, allowing him to believe that he was
helping these people to return to a world in which he was successful.
David wasn't an American. He was a Brit from the Channel Islands and
he really was a social liberal (more so than I was at the time). When
it comes to junk, I recall the sage observation of one nameless
subculture philosopher from the 60s: "When a person's got so many
problems they feel overwhelmed, they can escape into a drug habit that
becomes such a huge problem all the rest are totally insignificant."
I think an awareness of such street wisdom might be the first step
toward either kind of "habilitation." ****

Gnome
Blazin' Tommy D.
2004-06-27 04:41:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Gnome d Plume
On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 22:20:05 GMT, "Blazin' Tommy D."
(Snip)
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
BTD: Pedanticism, the sure sign of a pseudo-intellectual
Plus Tom has no practical knowledge of law. I haven't read the article
but
Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
don't see how what you've explained could possibly be
misrepresentation.
Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Niggling. Good choice of words. Tom the Niggler
You know Poke, kindness goes a long way. Schuler here acts like an abused
delinquent. I could just see him standing in the shadows, his
psychotherapist fingering his pipe bowl asks
"Tom, why did you do it; please Tom this could be your last chance to
tell
Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
us"
After a considerable pause Tom says
"They tried to make me eat food I don't like"
Collapses in his psychotherapist's arms
But instead of "End of story" Tom comes back to alt.magick
yawn
:)
***** Agreed. Schuler may have a deeper problem. For him this news
group may be like the old "Synanon Game." I had a friend back in the
late 60s who was a very successful aerospace engineer. He was a
liberal humanitarian and felt sympathy for the drug addicts in the
Synanon program---so he decided to offer his time as a "straight" game
player. The way this worked was similar to group therapy except that
the addicts were on one side and the straight volunteers were on the
other. The moderator was pro-addict (or so it seemed to my friend
David). The sessions consisted of the addicts trying to tear down,
shame and belittle the straights. David had to sit there and take
abuse (much of it filthy) from them for an hour at a time each week.
He would then drive by my pad, pace around the room like a tiger
fuming about these arrogant, egotistical, sometimes intelligent but
otherwise worthless human wrecks who insisted on blaming society and
successful people---like himself---- for their insurmountable
problems.
Each time I'd say: "Then David, why do you bother with these
people?"
Each time he'd reply: "Some of them are smarter than I am! And
maybe they're right about society---but damnit, I'm not their enemy.
Why do they attack me personally? I'm there to help them, for God's
sake!"
To which I replied: "You are the face for their fist."
Perhaps this is what we have with Tom? He may need a face for
his fist,---but I'm not like my friend David and alt.magick is not
the Synanon Game. This particular aggression-release outlet of
Schuler's has become dysfunction for him. He doesn't have the support
of the other game players and there is no moderator to protect him
from the stinging backlash when he vents his rage.
He should go somewhere else where he is less known and less
understood. ****
Gnome d Plume
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: Gnome, the junkies were correct, your friend was/is their enemy. I'm a
liberal humanitarian too. I would demand the government supply them with
fresh needles, good quality and affordable dope. After all we only live
once. Who in the hell do these happy yahoo DEA agents think they are. Get a
real fucking job already, you know?
Why should I care if someone's a junkie? As long as they have cheap dope and
don't have to rob my house, fence my possessions to score a spoon and
they're not spreading Hep C, HIV, &c then the only other issue is why
society is so fucked up that they would allow people to be so unhappy. And
if this is a necessity under the Police Power -i.e., the State can show a
compelling interest for these people to be so bummed, then let the
motherfuckers get high for Christ sake. THAT'S liberal humanitarianism.
Your friend is a fucking missionary for the GOP and Southern crackers
My brother got involved in a similar thing and it made him miserable as you
describe too. It's because people like that get a few dollars in their
pocket and start to think yeah, yeah, this works this is good
Tom got like that when his wife got a job as a personal law clerk for a
judge and started writing decisions for him -- at least that's what Tom
said. It must be true since he accuses everyone else of being a liar
Piano intro!
"I like the United States of America the land where we live without fear I
like to vote for my choice speak my mind raise my voice yes I like it hear
(are you marching punching a fist in the air for emphasis yet?) I want to
climb to the top of a mountain so high lift my head to the sky and say how
grateful am I for the way that I'm living and working and giving and I'm
thankful more thankful each year. Yes I like it, I like it. I like it
here" - Again!! Piano intro
This Baptist Bible dude that was our substitute teacher music teacher when
JFK was assassinated forced us to sing this song over and over again until
parents complained. Americans are really weird fucked up people and Uncle Al
in that regard was/is correct, best to just leave 'um alone. Problem is
trying to get somewhere where they leave you alone
So, you're suggesting that TOM is some sort of psychotherapist pseudo
hypnotist or whatever? Geez, no wonder he's so fucked up:)
As far as a leave of absinthe:) Yeah. I've gone to different NGs for a time
and it really does give one a fresh perspective; but with Tom, he has a real
ego problem. He can't handle being incorrect. It was sort of a neurosis last
time I was here (about a year ago) but has now become near psychotic. Of
course, as I'm sure Tom will point out, I'm not an expert -- translated, I'm
not a member of the elite -e.g., I don't have a wife who writes a Judges
opinions for him. I've only been practicing as a pro se attorney for the
last 30 or so years, almost exclusively for the last 8. I'd be willing to
bet that I know more about the law than Tom's wife and her lazy social
parasitic Judge put together. Talk about living on the dole:)
hee
hee
hee
Tom Schuler
You heard about his meat grows on trees work didn't ya?
See my answer to Natural Philosopher in this thread
**** Essentially I agree with you. The "War on Drugs" was lost long
ago and has only succeeded in putting a greater percentage of our
citizens behind bars than any other nation on earth. In the case of my
friend David, however, he was mislead by Synanon. He believed that the
organization was trying to "rehabilitate" the junkies and whether you
approve of society or not, that means learning to get along with it
and in it. Actually their hidden agenda--which they finally
revealed--was "transhabilitation." They were trying to build a
separate self-supporting community for these folks that would insulate
them from the rest of our savage world of "civilization." With this in
mind they victimized David, allowing him to believe that he was
helping these people to return to a world in which he was successful.
David wasn't an American. He was a Brit from the Channel Islands and
he really was a social liberal (more so than I was at the time). When
it comes to junk, I recall the sage observation of one nameless
subculture philosopher from the 60s: "When a person's got so many
problems they feel overwhelmed, they can escape into a drug habit that
becomes such a huge problem all the rest are totally insignificant."
I think an awareness of such street wisdom might be the first step
toward either kind of "habilitation." ****
Gnome
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: Resplendent point! You've touched upon something that is truly
outrageous in re Conservatives, whether Democratic or republican - that is -
this sort of reverse psychology of don't look at us it's those gotdam
Liberals.
In actuality the Conservatives are unsurpassed in terms of Social
Engineering, because it's them that come up with this sort of shit, not
Liberals -e.g., Ted Kennedy suggested that it would be far cheaper to buy
cocaine from South America and destroy it than to invest all of this money
in covert operations, paramilitary operations, slash and burn tactics
employed in Viet Nam, &c, &c. There are so many examples it's mind
boggling., Tax incentives -- why? If capitalism is such a smashing success
why does the traditional taxation principle those with the greatest ability
pay the most have to be abandoned. Does it? Where is the compelling
interest? (There's Dick Flat Tax Gephardt a contendah for Vice)
People like Porge and family have this attitude towards life -e.g., Son
we're the ruling class, we're the capitalists and make way for other
capitalists to do their thing that's what makes this society function. Many
bad things will happen along the way but you can't let them get to you or
trouble you. It's just the way things have to be. Really? Why? How
thoroughly presumptuous or how utterly devoid of integrity
Yet these same people come up with this bullshit (Bill Clinton) make the
niggers work for their welfare check what the hell is this shit with a
gotdam Cadillac parked next to their shotgun. (And these guys are brandished
as today's Liberals:0)
So in terms of drugs the question/issue like that in terms of taxation is
always -- is this necessary or is it merely a worthless act to satiate some
idiots whim that gives us money to get re-elected, and what the fuck do they
know, anyway?

Emmerich de Vattel states in his Law of Nations Chitty Ed. (circa 1863) I
Vattel c. ii, § 15:

"The end or object of civil society is to procure for the citizens whatever
they stand in need of for the necessities, the conveniences, the
accommodations of life, and, in general, whatever constitutes
appiness, -with the peaceful possession of property, a method of obtaining
justice with security, and, finally, a mutual defence against all external
violence

These sorts of "Conservatives" can't handle equal protection and can't
handle individual sovereignty "Yick Woo v. Hopkins" 118 US 356 @ 370, 373:

"Sovereignty itself is, of course, not subject to law, for it is the author
and source of the law; but in our system, while sovereign powers are
delegated to agencies of government, sovereignty itself remains with the
people, by whom and for whom all government exists and acts. And the law is
the definition and limitation of power".

So they try to convert the USA into something it's not
Vattel, op cit. @ §25 {citing in note 21 "Mason on Self Knowledge"}

"We shall conclude this chapter, with observing that a nation ought to know
itself. . . .Without this knowledge a nation will act at random, and often
take the most improper measures. It will think it acts with great wisdom in
imitating the conduct of nations that are reputed wise and skilful, - not
perceiving that such or such regulation, such or such practice, though
salutary to one state, is often pernicious to another. . . .Nations cannot
be well governed without such regulations as are suitable to their
respective characters; and in order to do this their characters ought to be
known".

It's precisely this sort of social engineering, government insinuating
itself into the private lives of sovereigns without subjects that thoroughly
subverts the principle of sovereignty (which by natural law as applied to
States, derives from natural law which appertains to the individual). It is
in essence from whence social parasitism springs. The junkie or the abused
Afro American in his squalid Mississippi Shotgun shack receiving government
assistance is not the parasite, they are sovereigns without subjects
entitled equally to the various purposes of society as set forth above. It
is these gotdam Conservatives sucking and usurping all they can from the
society at large. Why? So that poverty can exist!? Under color of conceded
and confessed failed capitalism requiring tax breaks, protectionism, nuclear
weapons, &c, &c., who are the real social parasites. Here Reagan spent his
remaining years thinking that he was going to render nuclear weapons
obsolete? Well if he was at all coherent word that Porge was/is going to
start the whole thing all over again is probably what killed him.

So finally the point for deliberation is why doesn't government fix it, the
private sector won't, can't and was never designed to. There is no reason.
Ignorant Americans appease themselves to Conservatives for no reason. Give
the Liberals a chance. They're the ones that made this rotten National
Security State which Porge &c have aptly demonstrated they don't know how to
run and probably that it can't be run. Let them fix it. And if they can't?
Then fuck the whole gotdam thing. That's my honest view of it. I'll be happy
to lend whatever assistance I can but when these miserable little puke
bucket fuckers like Tom Schuler come around with their stupid kid shit, well
that just plain makes me so nauseated, I want to kick the bucket out from
under them so they fall straight down on their turgid little glans, know
what I mean?

:)
The Natural Philosopher
2004-06-25 09:29:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Post by Gnome d Plume
On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 00:34:13 GMT, "Blazin' Tommy D."
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Post by Tom
Post by Nihilist
Because you've been such a nasty man, Mr. Runyon, I've relegated your
book to the bottom of my bookshelf. It will stay there until you make
yourself nice.
Carroll doesn't give a shit if you never read it. He's gotten what he
wanted from you already. You bought the fucking thing. Ka-ching!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: Aside from the fact that you've never written anything aside from
insults on alt.magick and your general disappointments in life which you
incessantly remind us of and plague this NG with, what exactly is your
complaint about the various works published by Caroll Poke Runyon? Are
you
Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
able to cite for us any examples, that we might have a point of reference
other than more of your "Plan 9 From Outer Space" like monologue?
Let's give him credit where credit is due. In my updated version of my
*Magick and Hypnosis* article (downloadable on our web site) I had a
footnote citing Rupert Sheldrake's "rat experiments"---actually
Sheldrake had used scientific data collected by other workers in the
field in this instance. Because I failed to qualify this in my
footnote, Tom Schuler ranted and raved for over a week about my
blatant and even fraudulent scientific misrepresentation. I finally
corrected this very minor error just to shut him up. Now I wish I
hadn't. For me it was a niggling nuisance; for him it was a major
triumph. ****
Gnome
http://members.aol.com/CHSOTA/productions.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: Pedanticism, the sure sign of a pseudo-intellectual
Plus Tom has no practical knowledge of law. I haven't read the article but
don't see how what you've explained could possibly be misrepresentation.
His knowledge of the philosophy of science is also almost non existent.

He seems to be struggling towards a Popperian philsophy, but got stauck
halfway.
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Niggling. Good choice of words. Tom the Niggler
You know Poke, kindness goes a long way. Schuler here acts like an abused
delinquent. I could just see him standing in the shadows, his
psychotherapist fingering his pipe bowl asks
"Tom, why did you do it; please Tom this could be your last chance to tell
us"
After a considerable pause Tom says
"They tried to make me eat food I don't like"
Collapses in his psychotherapist's arms
But instead of "End of story" Tom comes back to alt.magick
yawn
:)
Blazin' Tommy D.
2004-06-26 21:33:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Post by Gnome d Plume
On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 00:34:13 GMT, "Blazin' Tommy D."
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Post by Tom
Post by Nihilist
Because you've been such a nasty man, Mr. Runyon, I've relegated your
book to the bottom of my bookshelf. It will stay there until you make
yourself nice.
Carroll doesn't give a shit if you never read it. He's gotten what he
wanted from you already. You bought the fucking thing. Ka-ching!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: Aside from the fact that you've never written anything aside from
insults on alt.magick and your general disappointments in life which you
incessantly remind us of and plague this NG with, what exactly is your
complaint about the various works published by Caroll Poke Runyon? Are
you
Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
able to cite for us any examples, that we might have a point of reference
other than more of your "Plan 9 From Outer Space" like monologue?
Let's give him credit where credit is due. In my updated version of my
*Magick and Hypnosis* article (downloadable on our web site) I had a
footnote citing Rupert Sheldrake's "rat experiments"---actually
Sheldrake had used scientific data collected by other workers in the
field in this instance. Because I failed to qualify this in my
footnote, Tom Schuler ranted and raved for over a week about my
blatant and even fraudulent scientific misrepresentation. I finally
corrected this very minor error just to shut him up. Now I wish I
hadn't. For me it was a niggling nuisance; for him it was a major
triumph. ****
Gnome
http://members.aol.com/CHSOTA/productions.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: Pedanticism, the sure sign of a pseudo-intellectual
Plus Tom has no practical knowledge of law. I haven't read the article but
don't see how what you've explained could possibly be misrepresentation.
His knowledge of the philosophy of science is also almost non existent.
He seems to be struggling towards a Popperian philsophy, but got stauck
halfway.
Post by Blazin' Tommy D.
Niggling. Good choice of words. Tom the Niggler
You know Poke, kindness goes a long way. Schuler here acts like an abused
delinquent. I could just see him standing in the shadows, his
psychotherapist fingering his pipe bowl asks
"Tom, why did you do it; please Tom this could be your last chance to tell
us"
After a considerable pause Tom says
"They tried to make me eat food I don't like"
Collapses in his psychotherapist's arms
But instead of "End of story" Tom comes back to alt.magick
yawn
:)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: supercalafragalisticesbealidocious
udidalayundidalayundiddlediddlediddleumdiddlelay
Yeah:)

This links shows one of Tom's science experiments gone awry
http://makeashorterlink.com/?Q2F6128A8

PS be prepared for Tom posts, "you liar, you lie", &c., &c
I tell you the man is retarded:)
Nihilist
2004-06-25 05:16:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tom
Post by Nihilist
Because you've been such a nasty man, Mr. Runyon, I've relegated your
book to the bottom of my bookshelf. It will stay there until you make
yourself nice.
Carroll doesn't give a shit if you never read it. He's gotten what he
wanted from you already. You bought the fucking thing. Ka-ching!
Yup, I bought it from a used bookstore. It's tattered and has several
coffee stains throughout. My guess is that the book has had multiple
owners.

I found the website www.easingtheteasing.com; it's for a book about
childhood teasing. There is a poem on the website that got me thinking
about Mr. Runyon and his book:


I Am An Old Tattered Book

I am an old tattered book.
Nobody wants to read me.
My pages are torn, my cover soiled.

I am an old tattered book.
I feel like an old book,
Everybody else points and laughs at me.
I am alone on my own little shelf,
The shelf for books that nobody wants.
I haven't been checked out in years.
There are no other copies of me.

I want to be read.
If people were to just ignore my outside
And explore what I have on the inside,
They'd realize what an adventure I have to tell.

I am an old tattered book,
But look inside.
There's still some magic left.
If you give me a chance,
I can show you the magic that I have inside me.

[http://www.easingtheteasing.com/page21.html]
Asiya
2004-06-25 06:18:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Gnome d Plume
On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 05:14:44 GMT, "Asiya"
Post by Asiya
Post by Gnome d Plume
(1.) The Book of Solomon's Magick (1996) by Carroll "Poke" Runyon,
M.A. presently in it's 9th printing.
(2.) The Magick of Solomon (1996) VHS video written and produced by
Carroll "Poke" Runyon, M.A.,-- released in 2004 in an expanded DVD 2nd
Edition.
(3.) Secrets of the Golden Dawn Cypher Manuscript (1997) by Carroll
"Poke" Runyon, M.A. , 3rd printing 2002.
(4.) Seasonal Rites of Baal and Astarte (1998) by Carroll "Poke"
Runyon, M.A., 2nd printing 2004.
(5.) The Seventh Ray, Book I, The Blue Ray, (1999) edited by Carroll
"Poke" Runyon, M.A.
(6.) The Seventh Ray, Book II, The Red Ray, (2000) edited by Carroll
"Poke" Runyon, M.A.
(7.) Dark Mirror of Magick (2001) VHS video, produced by Carroll
"Poke" Punyon --released in 2004 in an expanded DVD 2nd Edition.
These titles are available from Amazon and Barnes & Noble, making
this list is easy to confirm---so just what is it that our
"Archdruid-turned-skeptic" with the murky occult background, is
trying to establish? Is he suggesting that there are two Carroll
"Poke" Runyons? One would think that if this were true, the "Poke
Runyon" that wrote novels for Pyramid and Jove, and stories for Argosy
Magazine would object to having his distinctive first name
(included
Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Asiya
Post by Gnome d Plume
in quotation marks) between Carroll and Runyon----maybe Schuler thinks
the legendary Poke Runyon is dead and doesn't mind having his name
stolen?
(1.) Drell Master (2001) by Poke Runyon
(2.) From the Tower of Darkness (2002) by Poke Runyon
(both available from Amazon) So why isn't Poke suing Carroll?
It appears that they are both the same person (and not ashamed of it )
and it is our strangely conflicted Archdruid who has descended into an
irrational state wherein he believes that one Runyon is at war with
the other. It would be more logical to assume that the
counter-culture
Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Asiya
Post by Gnome d Plume
phoney druid is at war with the debunking pseudo scientist.
But thanks for the plug, Tommy Boy. Ultimately you always manage
to boost our sales. ****
Yet you get your back up when someone calls you a huckster...
**** Are you married or otherwise related to this pathetic, frenetic
professor of "scientific" archdruidism?
Publishing a list of the books and productions written,
published and released under the name he claims I'm ashamed to use is
not huckstering. It's simply showing everyone---except you---what a
fool he is. Now when you charge $40.00 for an "intangible service"
over the internet and then side with this pseudo-academic when he
goes on a smearing campaign against another occultist who offers
original, tangible products that meet professional standards, you'd
better expect to get your own "intangible" profit-making operation
looked at in comparison. And I later apologized for involving you
and made it clear that I did not consider you to be any more of "a
huckster" than I was---but you seem to have forgotten that. Look in a
mirror and see what looks back at you. ****
A huckster is not just anyone who sells anything.

It's the manner in which you hawk your stuff (which is evidenced above)
that's earned you the label "huckster".
--
Asiya
**********
http://www.asiya.org/
Gnome d Plume
2004-06-25 07:01:52 UTC
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On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 06:18:11 GMT, "Asiya"
<***@sbcglobal.netTEMPHIOTH> wrote:

(Snip book list)
Post by Asiya
A huckster is not just anyone who sells anything.
It's the manner in which you hawk your stuff (which is evidenced above)
that's earned you the label "huckster".
**** Your logical faculties and your rational perception seem to be
seriously skewed. Did you completely ignore Schuler's barrage of
childish, petulant and grossly insulting posts declaring that I was
ashamed to use my given name in public? You obviously condoned that
disgusting behavior, because after a dozen such rants I posted a list
of books and videos issued under the very name he insisted I was
ashamed to use in public----and you call that "huckstering"? ----I'm
afraid my gracious apology to you for suggesting that your $40.00
online Tarot readings were just as much of a hustle as anything I had
to offer was too much of a concession on my part. I offer 200 page
books and 70 minute videos, none of which cost anywhere near what you
are charging for just a few pages of "personal guidance" from an
online fortune teller. Yours is a dubious proposition---according to
the police bunko squad it's "Gypsy bujo" and if you don't have a city
or county license in some areas you could be in big trouble.
I suggest you put things in perspective. ****

Gnome d Plume
Nihilist
2004-06-25 16:24:14 UTC
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Post by Gnome d Plume
I offer 200 page
books and 70 minute videos, none of which cost anywhere near what you
are charging
I've been trying for ages to get a copy of that video. Even my
occult-ish friends don't have it. You see, that's another thing: I
need more fucking friends. The five or six friends I have are all into
the occult.

Runyon, whatever is on your video matters little. All that matters is
that I'll be pissing myself laughing for weeks. It's a small price to
pay to get to see you prancing about in a wizard's robe, you know? I
mean, sure, maybe I'm being childish and immature by making a mockery
of your romantic artform and all, but whatever, bro. The shit on that
video is gonna be a fuckin' riot.

I love this newsgroup. I get to chill with the luminaries of the
occult world. I get to talk it up with the OTA guy, the LuckyMojo
team, the dickhead from Dagon Productions, the OSOGD guru--shit, I
even got to have a delightful convo with that David guy from
hermetic.com. It's as if I'm feeling vicarious fame and shit.

Runyon, dude, you're still my favorite living occultist. You're a
fucking trip.
Gnome d Plume
2004-06-25 16:58:07 UTC
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Post by Nihilist
Post by Gnome d Plume
I offer 200 page
books and 70 minute videos, none of which cost anywhere near what you
are charging
I've been trying for ages to get a copy of that video. Even my
occult-ish friends don't have it. You see, that's another thing: I
need more fucking friends. The five or six friends I have are all into
the occult.
Runyon, whatever is on your video matters little. All that matters is
that I'll be pissing myself laughing for weeks. It's a small price to
pay to get to see you prancing about in a wizard's robe, you know? I
mean, sure, maybe I'm being childish and immature by making a mockery
of your romantic artform and all, but whatever, bro. The shit on that
video is gonna be a fuckin' riot.
I love this newsgroup. I get to chill with the luminaries of the
occult world. I get to talk it up with the OTA guy, the LuckyMojo
team, the dickhead from Dagon Productions, the OSOGD guru--shit, I
even got to have a delightful convo with that David guy from
hermetic.com. It's as if I'm feeling vicarious fame and shit.
Runyon, dude, you're still my favorite living occultist. You're a
fucking trip.
**** Actually I really appreciate the above. In this particular
instance (not always, by a long shot!) you are rising above the
peevishness of the unromantic "muggles" when they view us engaging in
our admittedly "Not quite Ready for Prime Time" dramatic and artistic
efforts in pursuit of our outlandish hobby, our outrageous
lifestyles, world-views, and self-selected fantasies.
But when you laugh at us you are also laughing with us, because
we probably laugh at ourselves more than our critics do. If we didn't
we be on dangerous ground. I just sent another dozen of each of the
DVDs off to the one-breasted lady warriors in Seattle. Enjoy. ****

Gnome d Plume
Tom
2004-06-26 18:46:20 UTC
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Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Nihilist
Post by Gnome d Plume
I offer 200 page
books and 70 minute videos, none of which cost anywhere near what you
are charging
I've been trying for ages to get a copy of that video. Even my
occult-ish friends don't have it. You see, that's another thing: I
need more fucking friends. The five or six friends I have are all into
the occult.
Runyon, whatever is on your video matters little. All that matters is
that I'll be pissing myself laughing for weeks. It's a small price to
pay to get to see you prancing about in a wizard's robe, you know? I
mean, sure, maybe I'm being childish and immature by making a mockery
of your romantic artform and all, but whatever, bro. The shit on that
video is gonna be a fuckin' riot.
I love this newsgroup. I get to chill with the luminaries of the
occult world. I get to talk it up with the OTA guy, the LuckyMojo
team, the dickhead from Dagon Productions, the OSOGD guru--shit, I
even got to have a delightful convo with that David guy from
hermetic.com. It's as if I'm feeling vicarious fame and shit.
Runyon, dude, you're still my favorite living occultist. You're a
fucking trip.
**** Actually I really appreciate the above.
Carroll doesn't care if he comes off as a clown. If he did, he wouldn't
have done all that prancing around for the cheap thrill of seeing himself on
TV news puff piece, where the announcers sort of smirk behind their hands at
the funny-looking kook.
Post by Gnome d Plume
In this particular
instance (not always, by a long shot!) you are rising above the
peevishness of the unromantic "muggles"
Hee. I love this. Harry Potter, fer Pete's sake!
Tom
2004-06-25 16:48:39 UTC
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Post by Gnome d Plume
Did you completely ignore Schuler's barrage of
childish, petulant and grossly insulting posts declaring that I was
ashamed to use my given name in public?
You may call those posts "childish, petulant, and grossly insulting", if you
choose, but the fact remaims that you do find it extremely disconcerting to
be addressed by your given name, which is why you use so many aliases here
on Usenet and elsewhere.

Does anyone want to dispute that you have been "childish, petulant, and
grossly insulting" yourself?
Post by Gnome d Plume
Yours is a dubious proposition---according to
the police bunko squad it's "Gypsy bujo" and if you don't have a city
or county license in some areas you could be in big trouble.
There you go making legal threats again. Officer Carroll strikes again!

For the record, "bujo" is a Romany word for "medicine bag". Who do we know
who sells bags with supposed magical or medicinal properties? Is it Asiya?
Nooooo... Is it Cat Yronwode? Why yes, indeed!

"LUCKY RED CLOVER MOJO BAG: Our most popular mojo is a general all-around
good luck, money-drawing, love-drawing, and health-protection conjure hand
made with John the Conqueror root, Rabbit Foot, Dragon's Blood, Devil's
Shoestrings, Mojo Beans, and much more, dressed with Van Van Oil. Ask for
The Lucky Red Clover Bag. $18.00 each."

Better rush right out and have her arrested, Carroll!

"Hurt compiles upon hurt. Name-calling and vilification nurture
long-standing
enmities. Threats of legal attacks have been made and never retracted." --
Cat Yronwode
Asiya
2004-06-26 04:48:24 UTC
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Post by Tom
Post by Gnome d Plume
Yours is a dubious proposition---according to
the police bunko squad it's "Gypsy bujo" and if you don't have a city
or county license in some areas you could be in big trouble.
There you go making legal threats again. Officer Carroll strikes again!
For the record, "bujo" is a Romany word for "medicine bag".
heh. Cute. I looked "bujo" up on Google.

From http://fraudtech.bizland.com/fortunetellers.htm :
"Bujo is a Romany word which originally meant "bag" or "cloth" but has
come to denote a swindle, one in which the client's money is wrapped in
a head scarf or handkerchief, sewn closed, blessed and returned to the
client with the admonition to keep it under her clothing next to the
skin for a week. At that time, the teller promises, the money will have
doubled. Actually the packet containing money is surreptitiously
switched for an identical one containing paper. Before the week is out
and the swindle is discovered, the fortuneteller's band is well down the
road and out of reach."

And from http://westwood.fortunecity.com/armani/208/romani.html :
"Bujo (BOO-zho) -- Literally "cloth over the eyes," an elaborate swindle
to gain money from a Gaje (non-Gypsy). Often combined with dukkerin
(fortune telling) in a way that convinces the poor Gaje the only way he
can avoid misfortune is to do what the kind Gypsy suggests ("Give all
that cursed money to me so it can be spent....er, I mean burned, to rid
you of the bad luck!"). In past centuries, many Gypsies specialized in
the art of Bujo, making it their career. This was not because they were
malicious or untrustworthy people, but because hard times forced it upon
them. And the Gaje are just SO easy to trick!"

This obviously has nothing to do with a regular tax-paying resident
offering Tarot readings on the side.

Are you one of those people who think Tarot was invented by Gypsies,
Poke?
--
Asiya
**********
http://www.asiya.org/
Gnome d Plume
2004-06-26 07:16:16 UTC
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On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 04:48:24 GMT, "Asiya"
Post by Tom
Post by Tom
Post by Gnome d Plume
Yours is a dubious proposition---according to
the police bunko squad it's "Gypsy bujo" and if you don't have a
city
Post by Tom
Post by Gnome d Plume
or county license in some areas you could be in big trouble.
There you go making legal threats again. Officer Carroll strikes
again!
Post by Tom
For the record, "bujo" is a Romany word for "medicine bag".
heh. Cute. I looked "bujo" up on Google.
"Bujo is a Romany word which originally meant "bag" or "cloth" but has
come to denote a swindle, one in which the client's money is wrapped in
a head scarf or handkerchief, sewn closed, blessed and returned to the
client with the admonition to keep it under her clothing next to the
skin for a week. At that time, the teller promises, the money will have
doubled. Actually the packet containing money is surreptitiously
switched for an identical one containing paper. Before the week is out
and the swindle is discovered, the fortuneteller's band is well down the
road and out of reach."
"Bujo (BOO-zho) -- Literally "cloth over the eyes," an elaborate swindle
to gain money from a Gaje (non-Gypsy). Often combined with dukkerin
(fortune telling) in a way that convinces the poor Gaje the only way he
can avoid misfortune is to do what the kind Gypsy suggests ("Give all
that cursed money to me so it can be spent....er, I mean burned, to rid
you of the bad luck!"). In past centuries, many Gypsies specialized in
the art of Bujo, making it their career. This was not because they were
malicious or untrustworthy people, but because hard times forced it upon
them. And the Gaje are just SO easy to trick!"
This obviously has nothing to do with a regular tax-paying resident
offering Tarot readings on the side.
**** For $40.00 ???.....For a few sheets of paper? ....well, if you
say so.....*****
Post by Tom
Are you one of those people who think Tarot was invented by Gypsies,
Poke?
****Tarot was probably "invented" by the Turks. I have a book on a
Turkish deck from Fra. Regulus in Istanbul that pre-dates Tarouchi.

****And as for etiquette, or netiquette, which you seem to be so fond
of quoting, it is considered very bad taste to flame (insult) someone
by their real name while you hide behind a screen name. What is your
real name? If you are so honest and ethical, let's have it---just who
is this regular tax-paying fortune teller offering Tarot readings
online for $40.00 "on the side," hummmmmm? Inquiring minds would like
to know.****

Gnome
Old Man Tate
2004-06-26 18:06:05 UTC
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On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 07:16:16 GMT, Gnome d Plume
<***@unowhere.com> wrote:

snip
Post by Gnome d Plume
****And as for etiquette, or netiquette, which you seem to be so fond
of quoting, it is considered very bad taste to flame (insult) someone
by their real name while you hide behind a screen name. What is your
real name? If you are so honest and ethical, let's have it---just who
is this regular tax-paying fortune teller offering Tarot readings
online for $40.00 "on the side," hummmmmm? Inquiring minds would like
to know.****
Gnome
Well, you recently posted a bibliography of your fabulous books and
videos (which, thank heavens, are available for purchase on
amazon.com). In doing so, you put your name out in this public forum.
So now it's not OK for people to address you by your name?
Tom
2004-06-26 18:39:23 UTC
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Post by Gnome d Plume
****And as for etiquette, or netiquette, which you seem to be so fond
of quoting, it is considered very bad taste to flame (insult) someone
by their real name while you hide behind a screen name.
It's nice to know that you consider your own activities on this newsgroup to
be in bad taste, Carroll. While you were hiding behind a number of false
screen names, you have repeatedly flamed me, using my real name.

Perhaps we're making progress again. Now that you've been able to admit to
yourself that your actions are in bad taste, maybe you can finally begin to
face the fact that they are also puerile and self-defeating.
Gnome d Plume
2004-06-27 00:23:19 UTC
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Post by Tom
Post by Gnome d Plume
****And as for etiquette, or netiquette, which you seem to be so fond
of quoting, it is considered very bad taste to flame (insult) someone
by their real name while you hide behind a screen name.
It's nice to know that you consider your own activities on this newsgroup to
be in bad taste, Carroll. While you were hiding behind a number of false
screen names, you have repeatedly flamed me, using my real name.
Perhaps we're making progress again. Now that you've been able to admit to
yourself that your actions are in bad taste, maybe you can finally begin to
face the fact that they are also puerile and self-defeating.
***** Ah, come on ! ......I only flamed "Blue Rajah"....And I haven't
even flamed "Old Man Tate" yet....As Patrick Henry once said: "I have
not yet begun to flame!" (or words to that effect....)

Gnomus Plumus
Asiya
2004-06-27 05:08:52 UTC
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Post by Gnome d Plume
On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 04:48:24 GMT, "Asiya"
Post by Asiya
Are you one of those people who think Tarot was invented by Gypsies,
Poke?
****Tarot was probably "invented" by the Turks.
Riiiight. You probably got that little gem from your buddy Duquette,
huh? In his new book about the Thoth deck, he talks about the "game
called Mamluk" which Duquette claims originated in Turkey. Bzzt. Wrong.
Post by Gnome d Plume
I have a book on a
Turkish deck from Fra. Regulus in Istanbul that pre-dates Tarouchi.
Ya mean Tarocchi? Tarocchi is Tarot, Poke. There can be no such thing as
a Tarot deck predating Tarot.

You seem horribly confused. But you could always read this for basic
Tarot info:

http://jktarot.com/faq.html

http://jktarot.com/faq1.html
--
Asiya
**********
http://www.asiya.org/
Gnome d Plume
2004-06-27 07:00:20 UTC
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On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 05:08:52 GMT, "Asiya"
Post by Asiya
Post by Gnome d Plume
On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 04:48:24 GMT, "Asiya"
Post by Asiya
Are you one of those people who think Tarot was invented by Gypsies,
Poke?
****Tarot was probably "invented" by the Turks.
Riiiight. You probably got that little gem from your buddy Duquette,
huh? In his new book about the Thoth deck, he talks about the "game
called Mamluk" which Duquette claims originated in Turkey. Bzzt. Wrong.
Post by Gnome d Plume
I have a book on a
Turkish deck from Fra. Regulus in Istanbul that pre-dates Tarouchi.
Ya mean Tarocchi? Tarocchi is Tarot, Poke. There can be no such thing as
a Tarot deck predating Tarot.
**** The Turks didn't call it "Tarot." You've learned your
pettifogging technique from Schuler. It doesn't work for you any
better than it does for him...Once again, .I received the book on the
Mamluke cards directly from Turkey before Lon's book came out.
And you are still hiding behind a screen name. You are obviously
reluctant to take personal and legal responsibility for your "business
activities" and for your caustic remarks on this news group. Are you
going to identify yourself? Where is your professional biography?
Where can we find out about your background and look up your
qualifications? Put up or shut up. *****

Gnome d Plume
Blazin' Tommy D.
2004-06-27 19:13:13 UTC
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Post by Gnome d Plume
On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 05:08:52 GMT, "Asiya"
Post by Asiya
Post by Gnome d Plume
On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 04:48:24 GMT, "Asiya"
Post by Asiya
Are you one of those people who think Tarot was invented by Gypsies,
Poke?
****Tarot was probably "invented" by the Turks.
Riiiight. You probably got that little gem from your buddy Duquette,
huh? In his new book about the Thoth deck, he talks about the "game
called Mamluk" which Duquette claims originated in Turkey. Bzzt. Wrong.
Post by Gnome d Plume
I have a book on a
Turkish deck from Fra. Regulus in Istanbul that pre-dates Tarouchi.
Ya mean Tarocchi? Tarocchi is Tarot, Poke. There can be no such thing as
a Tarot deck predating Tarot.
**** The Turks didn't call it "Tarot." You've learned your
pettifogging technique from Schuler. It doesn't work for you any
better than it does for him...Once again, .I received the book on the
Mamluke cards directly from Turkey before Lon's book came out.
And you are still hiding behind a screen name. You are obviously
reluctant to take personal and legal responsibility for your "business
activities" and for your caustic remarks on this news group. Are you
going to identify yourself? Where is your professional biography?
Where can we find out about your background and look up your
qualifications? Put up or shut up. *****
Gnome d Plume
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTD: Asiya's come a long way though Poke. I recall two years ago? She was
doing solo Celtic cross readings and asking people on the group for their
opinion on her interpretation(s). That was when she was all excited about
falling in love with Jason, which she presumed a particular reading she
asked advice on augered with good luck &c, when I pointed out that it was
quite the contrary she ignored me. At least now she's willing to insult:)
Asiya
2004-06-26 04:38:05 UTC
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Post by Gnome d Plume
You obviously condoned that
disgusting behavior, because after a dozen such rants I posted a list
of books and videos issued under the very name he insisted I was
ashamed to use in public----and you call that "huckstering"? ----
What I call huckstering is that your main purpose for posting to
alt.magick is to plug your products and boost your sales.
Post by Gnome d Plume
I'm
afraid my gracious apology to you for suggesting that your $40.00
online Tarot readings were just as much of a hustle as anything I had
to offer was too much of a concession on my part.
Yeah, right. I'm sure that makes a big difference.
Post by Gnome d Plume
I offer 200 page
books and 70 minute videos, none of which cost anywhere near what you
are charging
Hmm, let's see. I offer Tarot readings for $5, $10, $15, $20, and $40.

According to your website, your video of the Vassago "Prophecy" is $30,
Seventh Ray is $11, first issue of Seventh Ray is $10, Book of Solomon's
Magick is $25, Complete Course in Solomon's Magick is $50 (Oops! $50 is
more than $40), Seasonal Rites of Baal and Astarte is $25, Magick of
Solomon is $30, Secrets of the GD Cypher Manuscript is $25.

Only the cost of your journal the Seventh Ray is close to my typical
readings (the $10 and $15 readings). And you do sell a product that
costs more than the most expensive reading I offer.

But, this is not about money, not about the amount you charge for your
products. Again, a huckster is not anyone who sells anything. It's about
the manner in which you hawk your products.
Post by Gnome d Plume
Yours is a dubious proposition---according to
the police bunko squad it's "Gypsy bujo" and if you don't have a city
or county license in some areas you could be in big trouble.
I appreciate your concern, Poke, but I've got my bases covered.
--
Asiya
**********
http://www.asiya.org/
Gnome d Plume
2004-06-26 07:51:37 UTC
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On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 04:38:05 GMT, "Asiya"
Post by Asiya
Post by Gnome d Plume
You obviously condoned that
disgusting behavior, because after a dozen such rants I posted a list
of books and videos issued under the very name he insisted I was
ashamed to use in public----and you call that "huckstering"? ----
What I call huckstering is that your main purpose for posting to
alt.magick is to plug your products and boost your sales.
Post by Gnome d Plume
I'm
afraid my gracious apology to you for suggesting that your $40.00
online Tarot readings were just as much of a hustle as anything I had
to offer was too much of a concession on my part.
Yeah, right. I'm sure that makes a big difference.
Post by Gnome d Plume
I offer 200 page
books and 70 minute videos, none of which cost anywhere near what you
are charging
Hmm, let's see. I offer Tarot readings for $5, $10, $15, $20, and $40.
According to your website, your video of the Vassago "Prophecy" is $30,
Seventh Ray is $11, first issue of Seventh Ray is $10, Book of Solomon's
Magick is $25, Complete Course in Solomon's Magick is $50 (Oops! $50 is
more than $40), Seasonal Rites of Baal and Astarte is $25, Magick of
Solomon is $30, Secrets of the GD Cypher Manuscript is $25.
Only the cost of your journal the Seventh Ray is close to my typical
readings (the $10 and $15 readings). And you do sell a product that
costs more than the most expensive reading I offer.
But, this is not about money, not about the amount you charge for your
products. Again, a huckster is not anyone who sells anything. It's about
the manner in which you hawk your products.
Post by Gnome d Plume
Yours is a dubious proposition---according to
the police bunko squad it's "Gypsy bujo" and if you don't have a city
or county license in some areas you could be in big trouble.
I appreciate your concern, Poke, but I've got my bases covered.
**** I'll just bet you do. Unlicensed fortune tellers get busted even
online. The specious thing about your little "business" is that
anybody with a Tarot deck and a book can do it themselves, so you have
to imply, or lead the rubes to believe, that you have some "special"
talent and/or "psychic ability" they can't hope to match--so you can
tell their future for them. But the real money is in return business:
"clients", people who keep coming back for more readings, dependent on
you to tell them how to live their lives. How many regular "clients"
have you developed? What would you say your percentage of new
business profit compared to return business profit is? Remember, if
you're "good at it" they keep coming back---again and again and again.
That's where the money is.....If you're into "The Big Bujo"....
And BTW, the $50.00 "Complete Course in Solomon's Magick"
consists of a 75 minute VHS cassette and 200 page book----that's a
separate $30.00 video and a separate $25.00 book offered together for
a ten percent discount and free shipping thrown in. That's a much more
honest and valuable package than your $40.00 Tarot reading----or are
you now going to claim "great psychic powers" that make your few
sheets of "predictions" and "insights" worth every penny of what
you're charging? *****

Gnome d Plume
Gnome d Plume
2004-06-26 16:23:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 07:51:37 GMT, Gnome d Plume
Post by Gnome d Plume
On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 04:38:05 GMT, "Asiya"
Post by Asiya
Post by Gnome d Plume
You obviously condoned that
disgusting behavior, because after a dozen such rants I posted a list
of books and videos issued under the very name he insisted I was
ashamed to use in public----and you call that "huckstering"? ----
What I call huckstering is that your main purpose for posting to
alt.magick is to plug your products and boost your sales.
Post by Gnome d Plume
I'm
afraid my gracious apology to you for suggesting that your $40.00
online Tarot readings were just as much of a hustle as anything I had
to offer was too much of a concession on my part.
Yeah, right. I'm sure that makes a big difference.
Post by Gnome d Plume
I offer 200 page
books and 70 minute videos, none of which cost anywhere near what you
are charging
Hmm, let's see. I offer Tarot readings for $5, $10, $15, $20, and $40.
According to your website, your video of the Vassago "Prophecy" is $30,
Seventh Ray is $11, first issue of Seventh Ray is $10, Book of Solomon's
Magick is $25, Complete Course in Solomon's Magick is $50 (Oops! $50 is
more than $40), Seasonal Rites of Baal and Astarte is $25, Magick of
Solomon is $30, Secrets of the GD Cypher Manuscript is $25.
Only the cost of your journal the Seventh Ray is close to my typical
readings (the $10 and $15 readings). And you do sell a product that
costs more than the most expensive reading I offer.
But, this is not about money, not about the amount you charge for your
products. Again, a huckster is not anyone who sells anything. It's about
the manner in which you hawk your products.
Post by Gnome d Plume
Yours is a dubious proposition---according to
the police bunko squad it's "Gypsy bujo" and if you don't have a city
or county license in some areas you could be in big trouble.
I appreciate your concern, Poke, but I've got my bases covered.
**** I'll just bet you do. Unlicensed fortune tellers get busted even
online. The specious thing about your little "business" is that
anybody with a Tarot deck and a book can do it themselves, so you have
to imply, or lead the rubes to believe, that you have some "special"
talent and/or "psychic ability" they can't hope to match--so you can
"clients", people who keep coming back for more readings, dependent on
you to tell them how to live their lives. How many regular "clients"
have you developed? What would you say your percentage of new
business profit compared to return business profit is? Remember, if
you're "good at it" they keep coming back---again and again and again.
That's where the money is.....If you're into "The Big Bujo"....
And BTW, the $50.00 "Complete Course in Solomon's Magick"
consists of a 75 minute VHS cassette and 200 page book----that's a
separate $30.00 video and a separate $25.00 book offered together for
a ten percent discount and free shipping thrown in. That's a much more
honest and valuable package than your $40.00 Tarot reading----or are
you now going to claim "great psychic powers" that make your few
sheets of "predictions" and "insights" worth every penny of what
you're charging? *****
Gnome d Plume
**** And BTW, I notice your "domain" (that's a professional web site)
is presently "down." Are you sanitizing it? Trying to remove your real
name, if it was listed in the small pint? In checking on your web
ring---of which you are apparently "Ring Mistress" (three ring
circus?) I notice no pro-vita (that's a professional biography). Are
you are operating under your screen name only?---if so, why are you so
intent on using my real name in breech of usenet etiquette (of course
I don't hide it. It is properly listed on all my works and in my
biography on our web site)---whereas you seem to be hiding your
identity while you insinuate that you are more "honest" and "genuine"
in your expensive, "intangible," anonymous psychic "service."
What's the real name on your local fortune teller's license? *****

Gnome
Asiya
2004-06-27 04:52:55 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Gnome d Plume
On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 07:51:37 GMT, Gnome d Plume
Post by Gnome d Plume
On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 04:38:05 GMT, "Asiya"
Post by Asiya
Post by Gnome d Plume
You obviously condoned that
disgusting behavior, because after a dozen such rants I posted a list
of books and videos issued under the very name he insisted I was
ashamed to use in public----and you call that "huckstering"? ----
What I call huckstering is that your main purpose for posting to
alt.magick is to plug your products and boost your sales.
Post by Gnome d Plume
I'm
afraid my gracious apology to you for suggesting that your $40.00
online Tarot readings were just as much of a hustle as anything I had
to offer was too much of a concession on my part.
Yeah, right. I'm sure that makes a big difference.
Post by Gnome d Plume
I offer 200 page
books and 70 minute videos, none of which cost anywhere near what you
are charging
Hmm, let's see. I offer Tarot readings for $5, $10, $15, $20, and $40.
According to your website, your video of the Vassago "Prophecy" is $30,
Seventh Ray is $11, first issue of Seventh Ray is $10, Book of Solomon's
Magick is $25, Complete Course in Solomon's Magick is $50 (Oops! $50 is
more than $40), Seasonal Rites of Baal and Astarte is $25, Magick of
Solomon is $30, Secrets of the GD Cypher Manuscript is $25.
Only the cost of your journal the Seventh Ray is close to my typical
readings (the $10 and $15 readings). And you do sell a product that
costs more than the most expensive reading I offer.
But, this is not about money, not about the amount you charge for your
products. Again, a huckster is not anyone who sells anything. It's about
the manner in which you hawk your products.
Post by Gnome d Plume
Yours is a dubious proposition---according to
the police bunko squad it's "Gypsy bujo" and if you don't have a city
or county license in some areas you could be in big trouble.
I appreciate your concern, Poke, but I've got my bases covered.
**** I'll just bet you do. Unlicensed fortune tellers get busted even
online. The specious thing about your little "business" is that
anybody with a Tarot deck and a book can do it themselves, so you have
to imply, or lead the rubes to believe, that you have some "special"
talent and/or "psychic ability" they can't hope to match--so you can
"clients", people who keep coming back for more readings, dependent on
you to tell them how to live their lives. How many regular "clients"
have you developed? What would you say your percentage of new
business profit compared to return business profit is? Remember, if
you're "good at it" they keep coming back---again and again and again.
That's where the money is.....If you're into "The Big Bujo"....
And BTW, the $50.00 "Complete Course in Solomon's Magick"
consists of a 75 minute VHS cassette and 200 page book----that's a
separate $30.00 video and a separate $25.00 book offered together for
a ten percent discount and free shipping thrown in. That's a much more
honest and valuable package than your $40.00 Tarot reading----or are
you now going to claim "great psychic powers" that make your few
sheets of "predictions" and "insights" worth every penny of what
you're charging? *****
**** And BTW, I notice your "domain" (that's a professional web site)
is presently "down." Are you sanitizing it? Trying to remove your real
name, if it was listed in the small pint? In checking on your web
ring---of which you are apparently "Ring Mistress" (three ring
circus?) I notice no pro-vita (that's a professional biography). Are
you are operating under your screen name only?---if so, why are you so
intent on using my real name in breech of usenet etiquette (of course
I don't hide it. It is properly listed on all my works and in my
biography on our web site)---whereas you seem to be hiding your
identity while you insinuate that you are more "honest" and "genuine"
in your expensive, "intangible," anonymous psychic "service."
What's the real name on your local fortune teller's license? *****
Pfft.

You're a joke.

Why don't you evoke one of the Goetic demons for all this information
you're so riled up about. Or Google.
--
Asiya
**********
http://www.asiya.org/
Gnome d Plume
2004-06-27 06:42:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 04:52:55 GMT, "Asiya"
<***@sbcglobal.netTEMPHIOTH> wrote:

(Snip)
Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Gnome d Plume
Post by Asiya
I appreciate your concern, Poke, but I've got my bases covered.
**** I'll just bet you do. Unlicensed fortune tellers get busted even
online. The specious thing about your little "business" is that
anybody with a Tarot deck and a book can do it themselves, so you
have to imply, or lead the rubes to believe, that you have some "special"
talent and/or "psychic ability" they can't hope to match--so you can
"clients", people who keep coming back for more readings, dependent
on you to tell them how to live their lives. How many regular "clients"
have you developed? What would you say your percentage of new
business profit compared to return business profit is? Remember, if
you're "good at it" they keep coming back---again and again and
again. That's where the money is.....If you're into "The Big Bujo"....
And BTW, the $50.00 "Complete Course in Solomon's Magick"
consists of a 75 minute VHS cassette and 200 page book----that's a
separate $30.00 video and a separate $25.00 book offered together for
a ten percent discount and free shipping thrown in. That's a much
more honest and valuable package than your $40.00 Tarot reading----
or are you now going to claim "great psychic powers" that make your few
sheets of "predictions" and "insights" worth every penny of what
you're charging? *****
**** And BTW, I notice your "domain" (that's a professional web site)
is presently "down." Are you sanitizing it? Trying to remove your real
name, if it was listed in the small pint? In checking on your web
ring---of which you are apparently "Ring Mistress" (three ring
circus?) I notice no pro-vita (that's a professional biography). Are
you are operating under your screen name only?---if so, why are you so
intent on using my real name in breech of usenet etiquette (of course
I don't hide it. It is properly listed on all my works and in my
biography on our web site)---whereas you seem to be hiding your
identity while you insinuate that you are more "honest" and "genuine"
in your expensive, "intangible," anonymous psychic "service."
What's the real name on your local fortune teller's license? *****
*****Your web site is still down, sweetheart, and we still don't know
who you really are? Do we? ****

Gnome
Nihilist
2004-06-27 12:36:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Gnome d Plume
*****Your web site is still down, sweetheart, and we still don't know
who you really are? Do we? ****
Oh, c'mon! You're such a fuckin' straitlaced hope-squasher. Those
Goetic demons seem rather limited. I was hoping the fuckers would let
me pry into some secret information--dope shit; none of this
pussy-mushy, wishy-washy fartform fluff of yours. Now I learn that the
demons can't even reveal someone's name! What gives, dude!

Just what *can* the beasties do, Mr. Runyon?

Tell you what, pal, I want my fuckin' money back. This stuff is bunk.
Gnome d Plume
2004-06-27 13:21:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Nihilist
Post by Gnome d Plume
*****Your web site is still down, sweetheart, and we still don't know
who you really are? Do we? ****
Oh, c'mon! You're such a fuckin' straitlaced hope-squasher. Those
Goetic demons seem rather limited. I was hoping the fuckers would let
me pry into some secret information--dope shit; none of this
pussy-mushy, wishy-washy fartform fluff of yours. Now I learn that the
demons can't even reveal someone's name! What gives, dude!
Just what *can* the beasties do, Mr. Runyon?
Tell you what, pal, I want my fuckin' money back. This stuff is bunk.
**** Before you cash out and go home, haven't you realized that our
beasties knocked her whole domain down! Go ahead, try to access it.
If you had $40.00 to throw away on a Tarot reading, where could you
throw it? Like Thulsa Doom told Conan: "That's Power, boy...." ****

Der Gnomemiester
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